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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (55894)	11/6/2002 5:34:33 AM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Lying is not considered a personal virtue in this country. We do not elevate it as a people. As a rule, we do not congratulate ourselves, publicly or in private, on anything we accomplish through deliberate dishonesty. It is not a trait we respect. That's why Clinton's remark was and is viewed as such a disgrace: "harmless" or not, average Americans do not respect the fact that he lied. :-)

To: zonder who wrote (55894)	11/6/2002 6:49:03 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

>>So what if there is a word called "taqiyya" in Arab?<< One of the things that the local lawyers, judges and court personnel always wonder is why Muslims lie in court all the time. Having had several Muslim clients, I have always warned them to tell the truth, that if they don't they will get in trouble, but to no avail. I've been told that Muslims think it's ok to lie to infidels. This dishonesty is one of the reasons people in the US are prejudiced against Middle Easterners. >>The truth of the matter is that everyone lies to get at their goals.<< I guess if you lie all the time, and everybody you know lies all the time, you assume that everybody you don't know also lies all the time. But it's not so, especially not in court in Fairfax, Virginia. When you lie to a judge, you lose your case. They hate it. When a Muslim client won't take my advice, and says that God will decide, I just make sure I get paid before I go to court. God doesn't favor Muslims in court any more than Christians, as far as I can see.

To: zonder who wrote (55894)	11/6/2002 8:25:07 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

So what if there is a word called "taqiyya" in Arab? It just means that Arab administrations, like their counterparts anywhere on this planet, will be dishonest to get what they want. The difference is that I don't recall at anytime where Christ ever advocated lying about one's beliefs or intentions.. or to to say that it's alright to lie, so long as it's only to non-believers... However, Mohammed, and the religion he founded, apparently did.... What it suggests is that what Muhammed may have considered a purely defensive measure to prevent persecution, has been warped into a justification for being utterly and actively dishonest in affairs with non-muslims. A literal "license to lie" which has been warped by Islamic "scholars" who now say that it is a "good work" to lie to a non-muslim. And that makes one hell of a lot of difference with regard to handling diplomacy. Hawk

To: zonder who wrote (55894)	11/6/2002 11:55:04 AM
From: KLP	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The truth of the matter is that everyone lies to get at their goals. Especially governments Really, zonder? Who is "everyone"....Maybe it is the norm for people you know, or in your industry, but it certainly isn't the norm for the people I know.... As for governments....again, that is what this is all about...the individual/s prospective of "truth".... Heavens, we have certainly seen a tiny bit of that, even here on this very FADG thread. I personally don't think the people here were "lying" when saying what they had to say....most people here were discussing their version of the truth...and therein lies the difference.