Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (56147)	11/7/2002 10:16:10 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

It would be interesting to discuss where "rights" emanate from in our different belief systems Favorite subject of mine. You will find no bigger admirer of Tom Paine that myself, but "The Rights of Man" was a fallacy in 18th Century Philosophical thinking. Where did we get these "Rights"? From some bearded old Jew in a white robe? Who lives in some mystical heaven? What you have is you and the Universe, and what you can make of it. What you want is to negotiate a deal with everyone else that if they will leave you alone to pursue your own happiness, you will leave them alone to do the same. The Society that has come the closest to doing that so far is ours. If you are sitting in your back yard, and you are stung by a Wasp, you are going to kill the Wasp. Then you are going to go looking for the Wasp nest. If you find it is in your neighbor's back yard, you are going to enlist his help in wiping out the nest. If he refuses to help, and will not let you on his property, you are then going to figure out your options. That is what we are doing with our Foreign Policy.

To: Ilaine who wrote (56147)	11/7/2002 10:19:30 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Zonder's right about one thing - nobody has given the US "the right" to decide the fate of other nations unilaterally. We may have the power to do so, but do we have "the right"? That argument, IMO, flew out the window on 9/11 and the overthrow of the Taliban. The only question that remains is the threshold level we're willing to tolerate in states where we perceive a threat to our national, and global, interests. This is what we're trying to decide with regard to Iraq.. Saddam certainly has supported terrorism against the US, and obviously other states. He has expansionist goals, and WMDs. Thus, we have to decide if we can live with a disarmed Saddam, or do we just overthrow him and eliminate any potential threat. It would be interesting to discuss where "rights" emanate from in our different belief systems, but it's certain that there are sufficient belief systems that are sufficiently different that we won't agree about where rights come from or what they are. We may believe we're endowed with inalienable rights by our creator, but unless we're willing to defend them, the only place they exist are in our hearts and minds. The US created the current global economic and financial system after the end of WWII. We also created the UN and gave it a place to exist in NYC. Thus, if one wanted to stretch it out just a tad, we could say that we're the creator, and the referee... And the world has benefitted greatly as a result, IMO. We have fought and defeated totalitarian communism, rebuilt devastated economies and developed economic wonders from backward societies such as Korea and other formerly undeveloped nations. But not everyone has prospered... And some of those who have, have been nothing but corrupt and unwilling to distribute that opportunity to gain wealth to their citizens. And not surprisingly, it is these corrupt and non-democratic nations which have presented the greatest challenge and threat to Pax Americana since the cold war.. They have the wealth to distribute for their own political and military agendas, but no inclination to play within the rules of "the game".. They want to make their own rules... And we're in the way.. Hawk

To: Ilaine who wrote (56147)	11/8/2002 4:26:28 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Why, CB, I am moved to see that the day has come that we can agree on something :) Zonder's right about one thing - nobody has given the US "the right" to decide the fate of other nations unilaterally. We may have the power to do so, but do we have "the right"? the US has the ability to decide the fate of other nations unilaterally, and the US has an interest in deciding the fate of other nations unilaterally, but it's not necessarily in the best interests of the US to decide the fate of other nations unilaterally.