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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas A Watson who wrote (319321)	11/15/2002 12:09:08 AM
From: JEB	Respond to of 769667

;-)

To: Thomas A Watson who wrote (319321)	11/15/2002 6:08:29 AM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

It is all based upon a proffer that PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH lies as lies are the tools of politicians. It is not all based upon this and to prove it I might argue my position fully without so much as mentioning Bush. The fact is, I mentioned Bush's lies only to show my opinion of why I think they are lies and why they were stated. Bush obviously felt compelled to distinguish himself from a number of prominent Americans who have told the truth about Islam. He needed to do this because, as his aides said, not saying something could have possibly been accepted as tacit approval of the statements. Bush needed to make sure Arabs would not confuse him with the others. I don't think Bush is an utter nitwit and that he knows Islam is truly quite wicked as it is practiced in vast parts of the muslim world, even in countries we claim are our "friends." So I think his comments abotu Islam are pure politics - i.e lies. I think these lies are acceptable when used in war. They have the precise same logic value as decoys and propaganda. They are designed to appease muslim Americans and other muslims. That is fine, so long as Bush does the job correctly in Iraq. It is also based upon the assertion that because a subset of members of a religion go wacko then the religion is wacko. The problem with this statement of yours is that it invalidly judges the Islamics as "wackos" when their view of Islam may well be what "allah" wishes. You do not appear so close to their Allah that you can prove them wrong. Their point-of-view is quite possibly exactly what islam truly is, and you are not so much in authority that you can claim they're view is inaccurate. What you are doing here is fallacious. You are trying simply to dismiss them as wackos - as if that is an argument against them. Well, it ain't. What we need to do here at a minimum is show, based upon Islamic theology, history and other branches of scholarship how these Islamics have truly deviated from the original intent of islam. Even here we cannot be sure that allah hasn't told them to slaughter innocent people. You clearly are not following the point. My point is not to judge, or condemn all muslims based upon a subset. It is to take very seriously the islam that wants my head-- not ignoring it and childishly dismissing it with names as if that really does something. I also very carefully aim to seek readily available distinctions between peaceful muslims and the murderous ones. Unfortunately the peaceful muslims have lost the battle for Islam's soul. And so the folks who are most important are those who are slaughtering innocent people. Since the peaceful muslims do not clearly mark themselves, then in the interest of self-preservation I hold them all suspect until such a time as they make themselves known. The onus is on them to declare themselves because they are the folks who unfortunately embrace a religion that is very much like the religion that wants my wife and kids dead - and I will not foolishly take precious time to analyze muslims while large numbers of them chant in the world's streets for my death. In the US were religius freedom and tolerance abound. This is so insanely stupid. In the US, religious freedom and tolerance abound because religions are reasonably free and tolerant. Islam clearly is not, as many Islamics have proven time and again. It is ridiculous to treat this religion as I would others because in none of the other religions are millions of adherents intolerantly chanting in the streets for the death of my wife and kids. American Jews simply do not, as a matter of religion, funnel money to terrorists so they can kill me. And no one else does it either. Tolerance is extended only to those worthy of it. Islam simply isn't, and it doesn't take much to see this. I believe one sees that Islam is a a religion of peace. This is just a pure matter of faith. The fact is, your definition means nothing at all when whole nations of people believe Islam is a religion of murder and when they are repeatedly living out their religion by murdering tens of thousands of people or "chanting death to America" in grade school classrooms. Logically, I must ignore your two-bit faith-based belief here and focus upon the beliefs of those who wish for my head. Your opinions ain't worth a shiite here. I believe there are a few million American Muslims. I say if we have 5000 Islamic terrorists, I doubt it, They will not murder as many Americans this year or next as criminals. Nothing but pure faith and since American muslims are proven to have supported terrorists, terrorists who long to have nukes, then your claims of their not committing as many murders this year or next is in my opinion pure numbskullian faith. When someone's very moral system encourages the murder of innocent folks, then I don't care if there is just one of them, that person takes on supreme importance to me. The fact that islam has whole nations of such folks, many of whom are supported by American muslims, makes islam take on supreme importance to me. I do not doubt that there may be ten thousand or more hating America Muslims, but I guess there are many times that of other races and creeds. But none of these other races and creeds deliberately raise kids as a matter of barbaric culture to hate and destroy innocent people simply based upon their country. This is done in islamic countries all over the east - and American muslims are supporting many of these groups. So while on numbskullian faith you will sit around illogically comparing the islamics to racial groups (the creeds of which are by no means as violent as the islamics), I will keep my eye particularly on Islam and its adherents. It is most reasonable and if I can support policy to that general effect, I will do it. But none of that makes logical an argument suggesting PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH is lying as he reminds all the Islam is a religion of peace. None of the statements you've mentioned make a logical argument that Bush is lying because none of your statements are at all factual. They are based upon faith - pure numbskullian speculation on whether Islamics are gonna kill folks in the future. Contrariwise, My statements are based upon the facts of history - past and current. Bush knows these facts and I suspect he understands Islam is not a peaceful religion - not yet anyway. So I think he uses lies here as weapons of war. I say "keep lying George. Just do the right thing in Iraq." Going to countries where political power and religion are one the religion is distorted as a tool of secular control. In such a place one does not see the soul of a religion but only the manipulation for the purposes of those in control. Evil men, stupid men can distort any religion to serve any purpose as an ignorant public at large can be easily manipulated. This is just an empty-headed judgment. Many of the folks in these countries fervently believe the Islam they live is true Islam, and that their Islam is playing out in government the way it was meant to be. Your judgements of the matter is worth no more than theirs. Indeed their judgements take on quite a bit more importance than yours because they in many cases wish for my wife's head and they are being supported by American muslims. In America where we have a free press how many Americans are manipulated and lied to. Now consider a country were all information is controlled. Does American news cover evil 99% of the time and good 1%. So what do we really know of what others in other countries really think. The questions are irrelevant. The fact is, the countries are certainly allowing terrorists to flourish within them and the terrorists are obviously exporting death across the world in the name of Islam. Now that is most relevant and it tells us quite a lot about who our enemies are. You, and folks like you, apparently ain't got the guts to face the matter honestly. We need a backbone sale ova heah.