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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas A Watson who wrote (319746)	11/15/2002 9:20:23 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

You simply state a lie was told. You also state Islam is evil. Your conclusion a lie was told is only supported by your belief that Islam is evil. False. My conclusion that a lie was told is supported by my assumption that Bush is not an idiot. As I have said all along, Bush could be telling the truth, but I don't think he is because I don't think the man is a blooming idiot, unlike some two-bit engineers around here. I gave a philosophical reason why I reject your premise a lie was told. You attempt to suggest from that I am inept at putting together premises and conclusions. You gave no philosophical reason for anything. You only gave an opinion that Bush was telling the truth about Islam. You didn't support that opinion with anything. I'd say your were inept at understanding I simply stated a lie was not told. Hehe. Lookatchoo. You've claimed in one sentence that you've given a philosophical reason why you reject my premise, and in the next sentence claimed you were simply stating a lie was not told. The first statement is false. The second is true. I think by claiming Bush was not lying you are claiming the man is a blooming idiot. Attempting to somehow use what I state as my belief along with a philosophical argument to suggest a premise and conclusion was put together is an indicator of stupid and narrow minded thinking. Hehe. i could not agree more with this. Anyone who would even try to derive an argument out of the intellectual squash you've cooked up here is obviously stupid and narrow-minded, which is why I have dismissed your puerile approach here as only so much mindless pseudo-engineered hogwash. Your entire argument is a philosophical justification of the reason someone might lie and you would be OK with it as not lying. It is based on the premise of your statement that Islam is evil. False. My entire argument is far more complex than this. My statements on Bush are no real argument at all. They are just an opinion that the man is using mere political deception when he claims Islam is peaceful. He is certainly no more an authority on islam than the whole world of muslim clerics. And yet that entire clerical world refuses to utterly condemn muslim terrorists as it easily condemns the authors of books. That tell you right there who rules the Islamic roost. It ain't Dubya, tommy and I think Dubya knows it. But all your philosophical arguments and poor use of inductive reasoning do not support a conclusion that Islam is evil. But the fact of tens of thousands dead at the wicked hands of allah certainly does, and when muslim clerics condemn reasonable men like Salmon Rushdie simply for writing books they reject and yet refuse to condemn muslim murderers, it is far greater proof of Islam's evil than anything anyone else can submit. The religion is evil because those in charge of it are evil and no soft-spoken islamic can change that, especially when those in charge of islam are gunning for the heads of millions of innocent people. One way to deal with islam in its current state is for the West to stand up and hammer it without mercy, not being afraid to call it the gutter religion that it now is. Only then will peace-loving muslims be free to take charge of it and bring it from the 10th century to the 21st. By your analysis Saying the President lied... Well The conclusion simply does not follow and shows you to be highly inept at putting together premises and conclusions. Well, your claiming I was putting together a real argument when I have said all along I am speculating on Bush's intentions is highly indicative that you ain't too bright. I just see you showing more stupid and narrow minded thinking. And I clearly don't think it prudent to take seriously the opinions of two-bit engineer wanabes who obviously can't put together coherent arguments. 1. I reject the idea, your premise and conclusion that Islam is evil. Well that certainly is no argument. I have shown clearly that from the very topmost clerics and across many nations Islam is expressed in comprehensively evil form and that this form is ubiquitous, showing up in country after country in terms tens of thousands of innocent dead. You've only claimed a faith enhanced belief that islam is not evil, but has been distorted, and you shown absolutely no evidence that you are capable of proving such distortion. It is the common mantra of nitwits who really haven't thought the thing through. They just say what sounds nice, while willfully ignoring the facts all around them. Well, you may sound nice to the left, but to thinking men you sound thoughtless. The fact is, Islam is in civil war and its alleged peaceful side is not engaged in the battle. Muslims of death and hatred veritably rule the religion. It is they who therefore get to define how it is perceived. It is evil and in sore need of being cleaned up. 2. There is scant evidence of Americans of any faith following the tenets of their faith are plotting terrorist activities against Americans or America. And this is irrelevant because there is quite a lot of evidence that muslims in America, based out of the American muslim community, are plotting against the country. And I have the now vaporized WTC complex to prove it. 3. Even if all or most past events have been from individual who claim to follow some variant of Islam, it has not been shown that those individuals commiting acts of terror follow even remotely the beliefs of the vast majority of American Muslims. In all I have heard and read the terrorist do not. When those American muslims fail to distinguish themselves from the terrorists, when even muslim clerics in America refuse to utterly condemn the terrorists, then we have no real basis for concluding the American muslims are truly different from the terrorists. The fact is, there is a symbiotic relationship between the groups. And skepticism is in order. 4. Upon that evidence an honest person would not say Islam is evil. The majority of the members have not been shown to have done or believe any evil. The terrorist have not been American Muslims. That evidence is irrelevant. The relevant evidence is the fact that muslims have lived in America for several years, decades even, with the social trust of American society afforded them by the American muslim community, and that from this American support structure they have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent Americans. That horror and those facts ought to be enough to reveal a serious flaw in our analysis of muslims and of islam. But you keep demanding large numbers of muslim individuals directly take part in terrorism before we grow alarmed. You just cannot get in through your little mind that that is not how the thing works. The evil of islamic terrorism is that it attaches itself to valid communities within victim countries, gains support from within those communities and then strikes the country using small stateless cells. Based upon your antiquated approach, we'd have to let the entire diabolical structure remain in place as the cells use technology to destroy thousands. And in response, we must only seek out the cells, cells that are hiding within the structure. It is folly. The structure itself needs to turn outward. Muslims need to voluntarily declare their loyalty and openly allow authoritative analysis of their dealings instead of fighting such analysis with Islamic whining. If the feds were not to force themselves into the mosques and charitable organizations, the community would go right on supporting and hiding the evil. You advocate employing old numbskull thinking to a problem for which old numbskull thinking does not apply. No real engineer worth more than a damn would be so wooden headed. 5. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH is an honest person and there is no reason to suggest his stating Islam is not a religion of evil is a lie. Yo may say he's honest, but you sound like a dang cultist. I think the guy is honorable and that he is certainly much more honest than the last president. But his calling a reporter an a$$ole and other such things suggests he's just a normal guy and not the dang worshippable saint you're trying to make him to be. That suggests he is capable of employing a political lie as a tool in wartime. To proclaim a religion evil, one would be stating their is a systemic and substantial number of members shown to express that evil. There are many ways for this expression to take place. One merely needs a fairly sophisticated mind to see it. When muslims in America, especially their clerics, fail to reject the terrorists in clear terms as muslim, though the terrorists exist amongst them, and when muslims across the entire world cheer and chant for our destruction, and when not a single muslim clerical authority is willing to condemn the terrorists, and when freedom does not reign in a single muslim country, we see the evil of islam in human society. One my be able to identify a sect that hold uniform views. But I am not aware of any such group identification being identified and having large numbers. Well you are not aware of quite a bit in the world, much of which is right under your friggin' nose. So you ain't hittin' on much with this dumb approach. America is great because of tolerance and due process and because pontificating wind bags who make broad sweeping generalization using poor inductive reasoning skills are ignored. America is great because America is good - unlike every single islamic nation on the planet. She is great because despite goofy two-bit engineers who obviously haven't a clue about reality, there are yet enough Americans with brains to see that new thinking is in order. And sure enough the FBI is worming itself into the muslim communal infrastruture to make sure wicked islam is being rooted out of the country. Now we must turn our forces upon Iraq. "Hey! Islam is peaceful. Now pass me the dang grenades."