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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (67317)	11/21/2002 10:54:59 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"There are not many things you must not do (There may be NOTHING, I can't think of anything right now)." I can't write ten pages of disclaimers everytime I write a one minute post (what I mean is I "won't". What I mean is I won't always). Obviously I meant "MUST" not do if he is to not be in violation of moral and legal standards held by those whom make him accountable in the community. "And it is legal in many states to kill criminals, so it IS legal to kill people if they commit certain crimes" I am well aware of that. If you read my post you will see that I referred specifically to Christopher. I was addressing him direct. I have no evidence whatsoever that he deserves the death penalty for anything, so it would be unfair to suggest that he can be legally killed. "You don't "need" to satisfy other people. You only "need" to do that, if you want to do that, and that satisfies you." That is a given. The assumption of the conversation is that people who wish to be regarded as somewhat normal in their society and to be accepted as such must satisfy certain requirements of behaviour. They do not "need" to respect human life for instance. They can murder as many people as they want, and pay the consequences. Please don't tell me that they CANNOT murder all they want--that they might be physically prevented from satisfying their full desires: I am well aware of that, also. Such meaningless niggling is simply missing the point. "Other people only matter if you choose to let them matter. It is a choice. There is no objective reason why other people should matter." This is the crux of the matter, isn't it? What he was really saying was "I DON'T CARE". As to whether or not it is a choice to be psychotic...a lot of people would disagree with you on that. To the degree that a psychotic views people as objects without ideas or feelings, as names instead of people, as unreal or unimportant, as objects whose feelings do not matter, whose pain is hidden from the person with the illness...to that degree is she incapable of comprehending the other as real rather than a material (or immaterial) non-human object--and to that degree one could say that her choice of viewing the person as human is limited. Pyschotics are considered to be ill, and such are not legally responsible for their actions. Whether or to what degree their "choices" were meaningful due to their lack of awareness is again a niggling point, and not pertinent to the conversation with Chris. You have said repeatedly that you don't care, that people don't matter, and that people are not real. You have even pretended that they are their name (or alias) rather than a living, feeling organism using a name for identification purposes. There is no reason for me to believe that you do not hold the same belief in face-to-face--that the "person" is the "name" they are using, and not anything which "matters" to you. If a person DOES NOT CARE, then certainly they "need" to dehumanize others and to make them "not matter". I understand that. Most of us were socialized to believe that others DO matter, and the "objective" reasons they DO matter are embedded in the code of values which we have internalized, and which we believe in. One of the many many many reasons we believe that others "matter" relates directly to their ability to either help or hurt those we love. This is a very objective reason for people to "matter". You may not be logical enough to understand this; but if some criminal broke into your home and put a knife to your throat, then you would understand that people DO matter. Of course, this creates a huge conflict, doesn't it? You cannot both think that people matter AND "DON'T CARE, DON'T CARE, DON'T CARE." What to do? People who believe that others don't matter will always dehumanize them and make them unreal. They will fight desperately to carry this falsity because it is incredibly important to their pychological integrity. Otherwise, they are liable to fragment and become increasingly disoriented to any coherent world-view.