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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (67474)	11/22/2002 3:02:26 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Just what IS truth? When people tell lies believing them to be true, are they honest? When people tell the truth but think they are telling a lie, are they honest? Whole topic to get into -- after lunch!

To: epicure who wrote (67474)	11/22/2002 3:27:04 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

uh, oh...terms problem again. I view honesty as a motive. The motive to representing things as you know them. As the antonym deceit is an intention to misrepresent what you know or to mislead another. A person can be wrong without being a liar. A retarded person can be honest and sincere; and a genious can be a deceitful liar. I understand your statement and agree that the facts are not always clear to an honest person. That doesn't apply to the statement I made, however. "We always know when an honest person is telling us a story or presenting fiction because it is established apriori." As in: "let me tell you a little story bout a man named Jed." No reason to think I am trying to deceive you by telling a beverly hillbillies story. It is pure entertainment. Even though there may be some message or moral to the story, you know that I am not trying to persuade you as to the truthfulness of the events.

To: epicure who wrote (67474)	11/23/2002 4:10:37 AM
From: Solon	Respond to of 82486

"Some people attempt to be more honest, but I am not sure it actually gets them any closer to truthfulness." The "truthfullness" of people refers to their integrity of belief...NOT to whether their belief has perfect correspondence to "reality". Nobody has perfect knowledge--not me, not you. That is not an impediment to our ability to distinguish between truth and lies on a less exalted level... So when granny says the time is 3:00 P.M. when the clock reads 8:00 P.M.--nobody knows if she is expressing a universal and absolute truth. I could be wrong, the clock could be wrong...or it may just be her bad eye-sight. But if granny is saying what she believes to be honest and true...then nothing more is required to acknowledge her as being truthful.