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Politics : Impeach George W. Bush -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: dave rose who wrote (17220)	11/26/2002 11:01:23 AM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 93284

Once again you think the important debate is between guns or no guns. That is only a minor sideshow that is usually put up as a strawman argument by the NRA. The real debate is one of ensuring the public safety while preserving the rights of the individual. That issue cannot be isolated to just a sentence or two in the Constitution, the real issue of individual rights depends on the system of checks and balances that ensure no one group can ammass enough power to control the agenda of the United States. The second amendment is a part of that guarentee, but only a part (And the really important guarentees of that amendment have already been surrendered). The alternative is Bush family unilateral dictates domesticly that are much like the dictates applied internationally and for the same reason, because power corrupts. TP

To: dave rose who wrote (17220)	11/29/2002 10:03:36 AM
From: jttmab	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 93284

Dave, Nor was gun control in England a response to any firearms murder crisis. Over a period of three years near the end of the 19th century, "there were only 59 fatalities from handguns in a population of nearly 30 million people," according to Professor Malcolm. "Of these, 19 were accidents, 35 were suicides and only three were homicides --an average of one a year." A fine set of sentences. I really haven't noticed a lot of people claiming that England instituted gun control in response to any murder crisis. I can't recall any claims to that effect other than this particular alleged claim. Clever how someone can make up a claim, attribute to the other side and then disprove it. Make a note of an interesting debate tactic for other use. While England has not yet reached the American level of murders, it has already surpassed the United States in rates of robbery and burglary. Moreover, in recent years the murder rate in England has been going up under still more severe gun control laws, while the murder rate in the United States has been going down as more and more states have allowed private citizens to carry concealed weapons -- and have begun locking up more criminals. Well said. Except it's pretty stupid to make that comparison since murder rates are locality and somewhat economically driven. Odd though that the US murder rate is on the rise and Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm nor Thomas Sowell fail to mention that. Why do you think that is? Do you think that they both missed that, or just didn't want to mention it to those that might not like to hear that? jttmab