SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sultan who wrote (111)11/29/2002 5:09:39 AM
From: zonder  Respond to of 15987
 
Yes, and I find the followers of Ali much more agreeable in their lifestyles than the rest of the Muslim world - they do not segregate women from men, no prayer five times a day. They believe in clear honesty, and moderation in all things.



To: Sultan who wrote (111)11/29/2002 11:39:13 AM
From: lorne  Respond to of 15987
 
Tapes May Link London Radical To USS Cole Bombing
By Mike Wendling
CNSNews.com London Bureau Chief
November 28, 2002

London (CNSNews.com) - Secret tapes indicating that one of Britain's leading radical Muslim clerics might have had prior knowledge of the bombing of the USS Cole have been released to reporters and trackers of radical Islamic groups in the United States and Britain.

The tapes, which contain footage filmed inside London's Finsbury Park Mosque, include violent rhetoric about the killing and enslavement of Jews and Christians and discussions about the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998.

Several of the tapes featured radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, who is wanted in Yemen on terrorism charges.

In one tape, al-Masri praises the bombings of the U.S. embassies, in which 224 people died.

"If Muslims are having a war against this people ... it's legitimate," he said.

On a tape dated Aug. 10, 1998, al-Masri mentions attacks on Western ships in Muslim countries.

"Even if it is a ship, a ship that has lost its way, then they will take it as booty," he said. "If a Muslim cannot capture his enemy, then it is acceptable to kill them."

The USS Cole bombing killed 17 sailors in Yemen in October 2000

Shortly after the attack, al-Masri made a claim of responsibility for the Islamic Army of Aden, a Yemeni group linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda.

UK: terror base?

The videotapes were first obtained by freelance journalist Jeremy Reynalds. Talking via phone from New Mexico, Reynalds explained that he and several other journalists have been tracking the use of the world wide web by radical Islamic groups.

Earlier this year, he received an email from a source who asked if Reynalds would be interested in terror websites being hosted by U.S. web providers.

His investigation led to the discovery of the tapes, which were obtained by a British source who won the trust of otherwise insular radical U.K. Muslims.

Reynalds said that other than in the Seattle Times and in Britain's Sunday Times, the tapes have not been widely reported on in the mainstream media.

"I really would have thought that somebody would have picked this story up and run with it," he said.

Reynalds' source said that he contacted British officials with the tapes but that they did not follow up on his information.

"Now the whole world can see that the United Kingdom is a major terrorist training base and support center for the al Qaeda," the source told Reynalds for an article published on www.assistnews.net.

Seattle connection

The Seattle Times has run several articles on the tapes because of links between Hamza and terror suspect James Ujaama, who is being held in the city on terror and conspiracy charges.

Ujaama, who will be tried next June, is quoted on one of the tapes as saying: "There are many Muslims who have forgotten that the Jews and Christians are our enemies."

The tapes show Ujaama seated next to al-Masri at a meeting at the Finsbury Park Mosque. On one of the tapes, Ujaama admits he was in Afghanistan but denies he took part in terror training.

"Sheikh Osama bin Laden was framed and forced in isolation, having to leave his own land, his family, and then used as a scapegoat to arrest many Muslims," Ujaama said.

U.S. prosecutors have said al-Masri sent Ujaama to Afghanistan just days before the Sept. 11 attacks to meet with Taliban officials.

Terror ties

Al-Masri has numerous suspected ties to terror attackers and organizations. Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber" who attempted to blow up a flight from Paris to Miami, was part of al-Masri's congregation, as was Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called "20th hijacker" who now faces trial in the United States.

On the one-year anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, al-Masri and another noted British radical, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed, held a "commemoration" event at the north London mosque.

At the event, al-Masri said the United States and Britain could face suicide bombings if the allies invade Iraq.

"If you were on the agenda you would see suicide bombings everywhere, just like in Israel. So it's simple. Stay away and preserve your people," he said.

A spokesman for Britain's Home Office said he couldn't comment on whether or not al-Masri or his organization, Supporters of Shari'a, are the subjects of a terror investigation.

"Police and security services are fully aware of this individual and his organization, and their activities are closely monitored," the spokesman said.

Britain has no extradition treaty with Yemen, the spokesman said, but extradition requests from one country to the other are handled on a "case-by-case basis."

Several emails to al-Masri and Supporters of Shari'a were not returned this week and two London phone numbers for the group were disconnected.
cnsnews.com\ForeignBureaus\archive\200211\FOR20021128c.html



To: Sultan who wrote (111)11/29/2002 4:52:18 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
Good stuff Sultan... Keep posting it...

Btw, I want to reiterate.. I'm not on some kind of personal "jihad" against muslims..

I'm after the militants, and in particular, the Wahhabis, as I believe they are the head of the snake threatening to envelope all of Islam..

Just like Christianity over the ages, Islam will face it's battles between reactionaries and fanatics, and the moderate progressives. They will warp the religious beliefs with their regressionist cultural values (women, tribalism, and intolerance) in order to subjugate other muslims to their own particular rigid and violent interpretation of the Quran..

Just like the "christian" crusaders did 1,000 years ago...

Hawk



To: Sultan who wrote (111)11/29/2002 5:57:33 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
Battle of Siffin.
In Syria, disorder and incitement to commotion continued unabated. Uthman's shirt, besmeared with his blood and the chopped-off fingers of his wife, Naila, were exhibited from the pulpit. In this manner, Muawiya raised the entire country of Syria against Ali. Ultimately, both the parties, opposed to each other, converged on Siffin where their armies pitched their camps in 37/657. Even at this stage, Ali sent three men, viz. Bashir bin Amr bin Mahz Ansari, Saeed bin Qais Hamdani, and Shis bin Rabiee Tamini to Muawiya to induce him to settle for union, accord and coming together. According to Tabari (5h vol., p. 243), Muawiya replied that, "Go away from here, only the sword will decide between us."

With an army of some 80,000 strong, mainly recruited from Iraq, Ali set out from Kufa, planning to march through upper part of Iraq and invade Syria from the north. Ali, then pushed on to Raqa, on the left bank of the Euphrates. Here his troops came across the Syrian vanguard but it withdrew without engagement. The next problem was how to cross the river. Ali wanted to construct a bridge of boats, but the people of Raqa were hostile. It was only after Ali's general, Ashtar, had threatened them with death that they consented to help in building the bridge which was completed under the great difficulties. Ali's men then advanced along the right bank of the river in the direction of Aleppo. At Sur-Rum they had a brief skirmish with a Syrian outpost before they reached the plain of Siffin, where they found Muawiya's forces drawn up in strength and waiting for them.

Ali soon discovered that the Syrian positions controlled the water supply of the whole valley, and that there was no access to the river for his men. Muawiya obviously intended to use thirst to drive Ali's men to surrender. Muawiya had, however, underestimated the calibre of Ali's troops. Ali, however wrote a letter to Muawiya, which reads: "You have fore-stalled me in pitching the stables for the horses of your cavalry. Before I could declare war on you, you have declared war on us. It was bad move on your part to cut off our supply of water. It behoves you to allow us the natural supply of water. Failing this, we will be reluctantly forced to fight with you." On receiving this letter, Muawiya conferred with his advisers, who urged him not to yield up the advantage he had gained. Ali was therefore left with no alternative but to attack at full gallop and inflicted a crushing defeat on Muawiya's forces, and took charge of water supply. Now it was the turn of Ali's counsellors to urge control of the water supplies and for the soldiers of Muawiya to suffer the rigours of extreme thirst. But Ali ordered his men to allow the Syrians free access to the river, saying: "Our religion and ethical code does not permit us to stop water supply, and so pay our enemy back in his own coin. I do not want to follow the way of the ignorant people."

Ali's next step was, as usual, to try and come to a peaceful settlement. He deputed Bashir bin Amr, Sa'id bin Qais and Shabus bin Rabi, but Muawiya declined the offer to the delegates. Ali still did not give up hope but a second delegation, consisting of Adi bin Hatim, Yazid bin Qais, Ziyad bin Hufza and Shabis bin Rad, also failed to persuade Muawiya to come to an amicable settlement. For the next three months, Zilhaja, Muharram and Safar 36/May, June and July, 657, the armies remained in camps at Siffin, facing each other neither at war nor at peace. This period of negotiations lasted 110 days, during which time, the Arabian chroniclers maintain that Ali made as many overtures for peace as there were days. There was much heat in the discussions with Muawiya, and finally Ali was obliged once again to resort to arms on 8th Safar, 36/July 26, 657.

Historian Yaqubi (2nd vol., p. 188) writes that Ali had 80,000 men, including 70 Companions who participated in Badr, 70 Companions who took oath at Hudaibia, and 400 prominent Ansars and Muhajirs; while Muawiya had 1,20,000 Syrians.

During the 110 days of negotiations, no fewer than 90 skirmishes were fought. Almost every day one tribal column would engage an enemy in combat, sometimes two or more engagements would be fought in one day. Heart-broken at the amount of Muslim blood that had already been shed in vain, Ali made one last bid for peace with Muawiya, at the start of the new year, but of no avail. At long last, Ali decided on a general engagement, and thus the battle of Siffin broke out on 8th Safar, 36/July 26, 657. A fierce battle was fought between them on the whole day, and it even continued in the darkness of that night, which is known as laila'tul harir (the night of clangour). William Muir writes in "The Caliphate, its Rise and Fall"(London, 1924, p. 261) that, "Both armies drawn out in entire array, fought till the shades of evening fell, neither having got the better. The following morning, the combat was renewed with great vigour. Ali posed himself in the centre with the flower of his troops from Medina, and the wings were formed, one of the warriors from Basra, the other of those from Kufa. Muawiya had a pavilion pitched on the field; and there, surrounded by five lines of his sworn body-guards, watched the day. Amr with a great weight of horse, bore down upon the Kufa wing which gave away; and Ali was exposed to imminent peril, both from thick showers of arrows and from close encounter. Reproaching the men of Kufa for their cowardice, the Caliph fought bravely, his unwieldy figure notwithstanding, sword in hand, and manfully withstood the charge. Ali's general Ashtar, at the head of 300 readers of (the Koran) led forward the other wing, which fell with fury on Muawiya's Turbaned body-guard. Four of its five ranks were cut to pieces, and Muawiya, bethinking himself of flight, had already called for his horse, when a martial couplet flashed in his mind, and he held his ground."

The following morning, the battle started up again. Edward Gibbon writes in "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" (London, 1848, 3rd vol., p. 522) that, "The Caliph Ali displayed a superior character of valour and humanity. His troops were strictly enjoined to wait the first onset of the enemy, to spare their flying brethren, and to respect the bodies of the dead, and the chastity of the female captives. The ranks of the Syrians were broken by the charge of the hero, who was mounted on a piebald horse, and wielded with irresistable force, his ponderous and two edged sword."

Appalled by the carnage, Ali sent a message to Muawiya and challenged him to single combat, saying that whoever won should be the Caliph. In Gibbon's words, "Ali generously proposed to save the blood of the Muslims by a single combat; but his trembling rival declined the challenge as a sentence of inevitable death." Muawiya had indeed lost his nerve, and was about to flee from the field, a trick of his accomplice Amr bin al-A'as saved them from destruction.

At length, Muawiya made his mercenaries tie copies of Holy Koran to their lances and flags, demanding for the decision of arbitration. Tabari (6th vol., p. 46) writes that, "The defeat started Muawiya in the face. Amr bin al-A'as, however, had a trick up his sleeve for this emergency, and it was the raising of the Koran aloft on spear-heads, and announcing, "Brethren, this Book of God alone will decide between you and us." It will be recalled that even before the commencement of the battle, Ali had invited Muawiya by sending his three men to turn to the Koran for a decision, but his offer was declined by telling, "Go away from here, only the sword will decide between us." (Tabari, 5th vol., p. 243). And now they sought the intercession of the Holy Koran to escape the unpleasant consequences of an ignominious defeat. At this Ali came forward and expostulated his soldiers, saying, "It is an infamous stratagem and a nefarious device of Amr and Muawiya to cloak their defeat. Beware of the trick which they are playing. You should fight to a finish." But Ali's men refused to fight. Ali, with a great expectation of victory in sight, was therefore impelled to call a retreat.

Ali's supporters during the battle of Siffin were called ahel-i Iraq, or Shiat'i Ali, while his opponents became known as ahel-i Sham, or Shiat'i Uthman and Shiat'i Muawiya. But Ali called them al-kasitun (those who act wrong), a word derived from the Holy Koran that: "And as for the deviators, they shall be for the hell, a fuel." (72:15), wherein the word al-kasitun means the fuel of hell-fire.
ismaili.net