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To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (125844)12/4/2002 9:47:13 PM
From: Jim Mullens  Respond to of 152472
 
Mucho Mass-

I'm still having trouble with this. What is the actual "out of pocket cost" to the company? Did the company go out on the open market and by these options to give to their employees?

Jim



To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (125844)12/4/2002 9:48:42 PM
From: The Reaper  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 152472
 
MM, I know we've been thru this a hundred times on this board regarding expensing of options, but there is one thing I'm struggling with if the company should expense the options at the time of issue. If Black-Scholes is used to figure out the value for the options that should be expensed at issue, shouldn't there also be an adjustment to income if the price of the common stock declines thru the course of the year after those particular series of options are issued. In effect the company is going to recoup some of its initial expense since the options issued a year ago are not worth as much as they were at issue. There could conceivably be a situation where a company (hopefully not QCOM) which has expensed ten year options at the time of issue, finds its stock so depressed ten years later that those options (which have already been expensed) are worthless and the company should recapture that expense that it incurred ten years ago. To me that fact alone suggests to me that stock options should not be expensed until the company has to go out and actually buy its stock to satisfy the exercise of those options.

all IMHO

kirby



To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (125844)12/4/2002 11:38:21 PM
From: slacker711  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 152472
 
the analogy i have mentioned several times (first mentioned by an accounting Nobel Laureate in the WSJ) is, if everything were "accounted for" just by EPS dilution, then a co could theoretically pay every single expense via options to all its payees (e.g., utilities, raw materials suppliers, landlords... heck, maybe even the IRS!), with the absurd result that the company would have zero cash costs and 100% margins!

If options have an obvious cost which can easily be accounted for....why wouldnt this situation work?

It seems that very ludicrousnous of the analogy suggests that the value of the options are nebulous.

Slacker



To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (125844)12/5/2002 1:42:53 AM
From: Clarksterh  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 152472
 
the analogy i have mentioned several times (first mentioned by an accounting Nobel Laureate in the WSJ) is, if everything were "accounted for" just by EPS dilution, then a co could theoretically pay every single expense via options to all its payees (e.g., utilities, raw materials suppliers, landlords... heck, maybe even the IRS!), with the absurd result that the company would have zero cash costs and 100% margins!

And the price of the stock would be deterministically $0, making the price of the options also zero. I.e. it couldn't actually work that way. Dilution and options pricing are different things - not readily translatable from one to the other. As long as there is full disclosure why confuse the situation by a very muddy attempt to equate two very different beasts? A rhetorical question since I am not really interested in rehashing.

it doesn't get counted twice. see, the options dilution which happens today is based on past options issuances. whereas the options which are issued today, which may not dilute EPS for many years if ever, are nevertheless compensation which is delivered today, for services which the co receives today. that is to say, they are an expense which is to be incurred today.

Not true. Diluted shares actually includes some of the options outstanding, even those not yet exercisable much less exercised. Thus, if this is the only claim as to how this is not counting them twice then they are being counted twice.

Clark



To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (125844)12/5/2002 2:49:04 AM
From: hueyone  Respond to of 152472
 
Speaking of Nobel Laureates, there has been more than one Nobel Laureate, (both Joseph Stiglitz and Robert Merton) who have argued for expensing stock options in the WSJ, not to mention many other luminaries including your favorite whipping boy---Alan Greenspan.<ggg> Do you like Volcker any better? He is in favor of expensing stock options as well. Here is one of the better WSJ articles dealing with the stock option subject with Nobel Laureate Robert Merton being one of the authors. I have posted this article here before, (and you may have posted it here first), but I believe it effectively deals with many of the questions that were just brought up in the last few posts, so it is worth posting again. Thread members can ignore it if they have seen it before.

online.wsj.com

FROM THE ARCHIVES: August 1, 2002


Options Should Be Reflected
In the Bottom Line

By ZVI BODIE, ROBERT S. KAPLAN and ROBERT C. MERTON

There are some issues on which accounting and finance professors disagree, but the expensing of employee stock options is not one of them. Despite the pronouncements of a few renegades in our disciplines, we believe there is near unanimity of opinion among scholars in the fields of accounting and finance that the value of employee stock options should be expensed on a firm's income statement at the time they are granted.

The reasons are clear.

Stock options have a market price, so when a company grants options to employees, the company has given up something that has considerable value. This value is the amount the company would have received had these same options been underwritten and sold for cash in a competitive options market. Indeed, Coca-Cola recently led the way when it announced plans to expense employee stock options using competitive bids from investment banks to compute the cost of its options.

Even when a company's options are not traded directly in a market, their approximate price can be inferred from the prices of other securities that are traded in markets. Analysts use mathematical models and formulas to estimate the prices of all types of options. In this respect, options are no different from any other class of financial assets such as stocks, bonds, mortgages, and widely-traded derivative securities.

Sometimes analysts' models provide only a rough estimate of the "true" market value of a nontraded asset. Nevertheless these estimates are used every day to settle transactions involving the payment of billions of dollars, such as in a merger or acquisition.

When a company issues securities whose value can be reasonably determined, accounting principles require that this value be recorded in the company's financial statements. Yet many executives, venture capitalists, politicians, journalists, and even some professional economists have voiced their opposition to proposals that companies reflect the cost of employee stock options on their income statements. We think their arguments make one or more errors in reasoning.

First, some argue that grants of stock options do not involve cash outlays, and therefore no expense should be recorded. This reasoning violates the basic accrual principle of accounting. Not every cash outflow is recorded as an expense in the period in which it occurs, nor does every expense recognized in a period involve a cash outflow. For example, when a company compensates employees by making outright grants of stock or promising future pension benefits, no cash outflows occur. Yet the company would record, as compensation expense, the value of the stock granted or the present value of the pension benefit promised. Stock-option grants should receive comparable treatment.

A second error is to argue that the expensing of stock options would be double counting because the diluting effect of granting the options is recognized by an increase in the number of shares in the denominator of a fully-diluted earnings per share calculation. But by extension this argument would apply to shares of stock granted to employees as well as to stock options. If accepted, companies could issue stock in lieu of salary to employees, ignore the value of the stock issued, and just record the increase in the number of shares outstanding. This erroneous argument would also enable a company to issue stock options to, say, a supplier of materials or energy, and not record the materials or energy consumed as an expense because the effect would show up in the higher number of shares in an earnings-per-share calculation. Curious reasoning.

Third, some argue that employee stock options are worth less than publicly traded options because employees do not gain full ownership of the shares for several years (called the vesting period) and the company may place restrictions on employees' selling their options. But a firm's financial report reflects the perspective of the firm and its shareholders, not the entities with which it contracts. This principle is so fundamental that it is usually taught on the first day of an introductory accounting course. Therefore, the value of the stock option to the company is its cost -- the cash forgone by granting the options to an employee rather than selling them to external investors -- not its value to the person who receives it.

Finally, some opponents of expensing employee stock options make two arguments that actually conflict with each other. First, they claim that it is enough to disclose the information in the footnotes to corporate financial statements as is done now. And second, they claim that to require that options be expensed would hurt companies, particularly high-tech firms that rely heavily on options as a form of compensation. But if deducting the expenses of options that are already disclosed in footnotes would drive a company's stock price down, then we have proof that the disclosure alone was inadequate to capture the underlying economic reality.

The accounting for employee stock options on a firm's income statement should be decided according to economic and accounting principles, not by dubious rationalizations. If the following true-or-false question appeared on an accounting exam, the answer is quite clear: Employee stock options should be expensed on a firm's income statement. True.

Mr. Bodie is a professor of finance at the Boston University School of Management. Messrs. Kaplan and Merton are professors of accounting and finance, respectively, at Harvard Business School. Mr. Merton won the Nobel Prize in 1997 for his work on option pricing.