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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (60023)	12/5/2002 2:43:44 PM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>>I would hope that the Dems don't try to create their own destruction machine.<< Sorry, but this statement is just mind-numbingly disingenuous.

To: JohnM who wrote (60023)	12/5/2002 2:51:31 PM
From: Rascal	Respond to of 281500

However, my point remains. If folk which to post articles which try to pin the tail of anti-Americanism on anyone who criticizes Bush, present US policy, whatever, then I intend to call them on it and will be happy to argue the contents of the post, the political strategy of trying to paint your political opponents as anti-American, and, most important to me, where that leads political discourse in this country. Bravo. I am having this made into a bumper sticker.

To: JohnM who wrote (60023)	12/5/2002 2:57:09 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

That way leads to the same thing that disturbs me about these kinds of posts here--political discourse becomes a game of who can paint the other as unpatriotic. I don't think anyone has made such an accusation. I really do think FL should bar discussion of patriotism. It is inimical to the stated purpose of this thread. C2@thelastrefugeofscoundrels.com

To: JohnM who wrote (60023)	12/5/2002 3:01:42 PM
From: paul_philp	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If folk which to post articles which try to pin the tail of anti-Americanism on anyone who criticizes Bush, present US policy, whatever, then I intend to call them on it Certainly. It is dangerous and arrogant to accuse someone who disagrees with the government unAmerican or unpatriotic. On the otherside of the fence, there is a regular accusation that Bush et. al. and those who support them are 'betraying the constitution'. This is equally unhelpful. Bill Clinton observed in his speech to the DLC within the past several days that one of the differences between the Dems and the Reps was that the Reps had a destruction machine. One of my little life pleasures these days is sitting back and watch the American parties accuse each other of being political parties. I can see no difference in terms of meanness in campaigning and politicizing the agenda between the two parties. It is a winner take all system and decisions are made polically by design. Many people from both parties indulge the fantasy that their s--t doesn't stink. It amuses. political discourse becomes a game of who can paint the other as unpatriotic. That is a two-way game as well. Look at the press John "Orwell" Ashcroft gets. As I suggested to Ken, the topic of how America is view is critical. How Americans view America is equally critical if they are going to attempt to enroll parts of the world into a some form of the 'American System'. Paul