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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: ThirdEye who wrote (326917)12/8/2002 10:58:19 PM
From: Wildstar  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769670
 
In your original example, you described the land as unowned. In reality, no land is unowned.

Yes, I was trying to describe the firewood in its original state of nature, so that the person's obtainment of firewood was not a result of either free exchange or coercion.

It's ownership resides in either private hands or public trust. It is owned by either one person or all people--of whatever government entity exists there. So your responses did not actually cover all probabilities.

I disagree. Only individuals have natural rights. Aggregates do not. For example, I can do what I want with my house. I can live in it, can use it as a shop, or I can burn it down. (Provided of course that my actions with my house do not result in the loss of another person's property - for that would be a violation of his natural rights).

However, I certainly do not own public land. I can't live on public land. The "authorities" would kick me off. I certainly can't open a shop on public land. I certainly can't burn down public land. The natural rights framework cannot be applied to public property because there are no property rights with public property. Nobody owns public property.

Saying "We all own public property" is nonsensical.

Here's a somewhat more complicated example: Tribe A and Tribe B occupy the north and south respectively of the same country. Tribe A is the majority and in control of the government. They contract with an outside entity to develop a natural resource that is in the south where tribe B lives. The outside entity, under the protection of the army of Tribe A, develops the resource on Tribe B land and pays a fair market value to tribe A for the privilege. But Tribe A gives nothing to Tribe B, except to send the army to quell their protests. Is there fault here? Are natural rights being violated? Which ones and by whom?

Since I don't believe that rights belong to tribes, but only to individuals, I will attempt to answer your question using Person A and Person B.

Since Person A used force (army protection) without the express consent of Person B, that is a clear violation of Person's B's property rights. The violator is directly the protection army, and indirectly the outside entity and Person A. However, all 3 along the chain are in violation.