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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Fred Levine who wrote (67101)	12/12/2002 12:38:44 PM
From: zonder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Hi Fred - I will get back to you shortly on that. It will take some time to write. I was rattled by the posts Roll presented. Any more rattled than you were rattled by the Dolphin Sex page I posted? <ggg> Seriously, you cannot take that website as the unified voice of the Muslim world. There are a lot of crazies out there and some of them are sicker than the others. The important thing to keep in mind is that they are a minority. any approaches to dealing with an intransigent foe who is determined to kill civilians Talking about W. in his "We'll use nukes if necessary" speech? <g

To: Fred Levine who wrote (67101)	12/12/2002 12:44:57 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 70976

Fred. no time now. will try again later. i am as sick of war as any european. They should remember that most of todays problems emanate from europe and not from the US. Hell there wouldnt be an israel today if it werent for hitler. Then the arabs would love us, right??? Look at africa--result of colonialism from guess where. US has largely made the world a better place. Yes we make mistakes. I will defer on yemen decision. There must be something we dont know. Perhaps another predator strike in return. How dare we?? We uncivilized louts who dare to protect ourselves. mike

To: Fred Levine who wrote (67101)	12/12/2002 3:44:58 PM
From: Rollcast...	Respond to of 70976

The face of Islamism in Europe. MEET DYAB ABU JAHJAH, a face you will probably become familiar with in the next few years. michielvisser.blogspot.com Abu Jahjah is the verbally fluent and charming president and founder of the Arab European League (AEL), a two-year old extremist organization growing rapidly in Belgium, which is now planning to plant itself in The Netherlands as well. Jahjah led an outburst of violence in the Flemish port city of Antwerp a fortnight ago. After a Moroccan school teacher was killed by a Flemish man (who turned out to have serious psychological problems), Moroccan youths wrecked cars, looted shops, and clashed with police for three days. Jahjah was arrested under pressure from the Belgian prime minister, released a few days later, and prohibited from participating in public demonstrations for the next three months. Abu Jahjah (31) was born in Lebanon, where he joined Hezbullah when he was 17 (link in Dutch). He ended up in Belgium in 1992. Allegedly, he claimed to be an Hezbullah apostate who had to fear for his life. In 1995, Belgium wanted to throw him out of the country, so he quickly arranged a marriage with a gullible Belgian woman. The bogus marriage lasted just long enough to win him Belgian citizenship. The Arab European League is characterized by its antisemitism, violence, and street tactics. One of the more notorious activities of the AEL is sending surveillance teams, clad in black uniform, onto the streets of Antwerp to "monitor" the police, who are accused of discriminating against Muslims. The Belgian prime minister, in turn, has accused the AEL of aiming to create "police-free zones", where criminal activity can then take place unchecked. The political views of Abu Jahjah sound familiar: "We are against the war, against all American wars...We are opposed to the war of Bush and Sharon. We are opposed to the sanctions [against Iraq] and the inspections. This is not the last time we will be on the streets. If war breaks out, we will demonstrate everywhere in the world: in Brussels, Paris, and Baghdad. We have to arm ourselves to continue our struggle. We need to arm all those who want to resist the United States. Because everywhere in the world there is one fight: against the United States. Today and in the future. We support the resistance in Palestine and in Iraq. We support everyone who battles today against zionism and imperialism." (my translation) It is not known who funds the AEL, but as they don't accept subsidy from the Belgian government, there is speculation that they are financed by foreign governments (Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia?). Rumor has it the AEL was set up by the World Muslim League, which is sponsored by Saudi Arabia. Some parents of rioting kids claimed their sons were persuaded to join the riots in return for mobile phones and other hand-outs. The AEL is also behind the recent attempt to indict Ariel Sharon in Belgium for human rights abuses. They confirmed they received foreign financial support to pay for the lawsuit. After being released from police custody, Jahjah declared victory, promising that he would run for the Belgian parliament in June and threatening to sue the prime minister for libel. The latest development is AEL's plan to set up shop in the Netherlands. The Netherlands is attractive for radical Muslims, in part because of its generous schooling system. It's easy to start your own school, and all primary schools, including religious ones, are subsidized by the state. The 32-year old M'Hamed Zaghboubi, "an unemployed migrant", , announced yesterday (link in Dutch) in the Dutch evening paper NRC Handelsblad that the Dutch franchise of the AEL will be formally founded in February. To show what Europe is dealing with, I have translated parts of the interview: Even though a majority is doing well, the crime among Moroccan youths is very high, isn't it? "You think that's strange? Since the eighties kids have been trained to take over their fathers' jobs in the factories. The Dutch education system has failed. It differentiates between Dutch and foreign students.... Foreigners are treated like Untermenschen (Hitler's term for the Jews, ed.)" So the fault doesn't lie with the immigrants? The guilt for the problems that foreign kids cause lies with Dutch society. Absolutely. That's why we have to increase self-awareness amongst Moroccan kids. It would be good if there is an AEL in every city." [...] You want to start surveilling the Dutch police by Moroccan youths, just like the AEL in Belgium. Don't you think that's radical and provocative? What would be wrong with that! It's absolutely my right as a citizen to monitor the police and report any incidents to the proper authorities. Is the Dutch police just as racist as the one in Antwerp? Yes, but more subtle and smart than their Belgian colleagues [...] Why would Moroccan kids, who are mostly Berber, be attracted by an Arab league? Islam binds us all, all young people from North-Africa. In a recent interview on Dutch TV, Abu Jahjah said: "It would be fantastic if empty planes would be flown into the White House." Let me leave you with this note. The Dutch parliament convened recently to discuss the possibility of banning the AEL. It turns out the law doesn't allow for this possibility. Besides, the minister of Justice didn't feel there was any need to ban AEL. Welcome to 21st century Europe.

To: Fred Levine who wrote (67101)	12/13/2002 3:39:12 PM
From: Rollcast...	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Palestinian Mother Proudly Prayed for her Son to Die, during her Pilgrimage [Haj] to Mecca imra.org.il Palestinian Media Watch Bulletin Dec. 12, 2002 By Itamar Marcus Introduction: Palestinian TV frequently broadcasts interviews with parents who express joy that their children became Shahids, meaning they Died for Allah in confrontations with Israelis. This week PATV went further, interviewing a mother who had lost two sons, who proudly recounted that while on pilgrimage to Mecca she prayed that her son would die fighting Israelis. Afterward, the woman was given time to express at length her detailed wishes that Israelis should live in horror, suffering regular terrorist attacks: "I have one wish for all Israeli mothers, for all Israelis.They should not relax, they should not sleep peacefully, they should always have nightmares, night and day, wherever they go, and whatever they do... No Israeli of any kind should live in comfort. Even in their sleep, they should have nightmares. We will blow them up day and night, wherever they go... if I see an Israeli I will blow up among them." Below are excerpts from her interview: "[My second son Naji] became a Shahid on Mar. 23, 2002, at the age of 20. Before I made my pilgrimage [to Mecca], he put his hands on my head and said: "Be calm, mother, be calm, this is my wish. Pray for me, that I will be a Shahid [Die for Allah]." When I did the circuit [an Islamic pilgrimage ceremony], in Mecca and Medina, I swear to Allah, that I prayed for him... And said: Praise Allah, my children asked for Shahada, and it is better than the way we will die. Their death is for Allah, death for our country, death for our Jerusalem ." "I have one wish for all Israeli mothers, for all Israelis: They should not relax, they should not sleep peacefully, they should always have nightmares, night and day, wherever they go, and whatever they do... not only from bombings or attacks, but nightmares day and night. They should dream of how the Palestinian people kill them, and blow them up. They should not be relaxed, and should not sleep. Not them and not there sons, not their children, nor the Israeli army. They should not be able to travel on the buses, nor drive a tank, nor even ride a bike. Wherever they turn, the Israelis should see [someone] and say: "Maybe it's a Palestinian." "This Jerusalem is our Jerusalem, and not yours. We are the children of Palestine, the Muslim nation, you will not live in comfort: not an Israeli's mother, nor a soldier's mother, nor a soldier's grandfather, nor a soldier's father. No Israeli of any kind should live in comfort. Even in their sleep, they will have nightmares. We will blow them up day and night, wherever they go. And I, as the mother of two Shahids, if I see an Israeli I will blow up among them." Presenter: "Of course, We are always very proud of all of our Shahids." [Palestinian Television 5/12/02] ******************************************* Just a minority fringe? Understandable? At least to Zonder.