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Strategies & Market Trends : Booms, Busts, and Recoveries -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Night Trader who wrote (26162)12/15/2002 8:14:15 PM
From: maceng2  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 74559
 
Gendell certainly sounds convincing, and of course he is a hedge fund manager. There will be lots of that "psyhcological trading" going on I expect. Some "numbers ho ho"

I remember reading this post about a month back..
Message 18198729.

Gendell..

Q: Transfer prices?
A: Subsidies. If corn doesn't hit a certain price, if soybeans don't hit a certain price, if wheat doesn't hit a certain price, the farmers get a subsidy


The U.S. farm bill, is $180B.
miami.com

USA deficits runs about $25B to $35B per month, say $30B gives $360B per year.
theolympian.com

So even if commodity prices appreciated enough to where the whole farm bill could be cancelled, there would still be a shortfall.

According to this site, only 2% of the workforce work in agriculture. I am not sure what the total "agribiz" employment would come to though. (edit OK it's in first link above 2.6%)

usembassy.de

I think what is happening to the USA's other businesses is certainly a factor to consider here. That and debt the consumer is riding in the hope things get better.

Message 18245626

Property prices have been holding up some of the stocks that were mentioned. This is one of my bookmarked sites.

Subject 51347

OK, property prices have held generally, but it will not take much for them to make a significant downdraft IMHO.

So, overall I am dubious of any bullish stance on equities, (apart from the usual market jamming) and long gold miners.

...but I'm a J6P, not a hedgefund manager -g-



To: Night Trader who wrote (26162)12/15/2002 8:51:59 PM
From: TobagoJack  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 74559
 
Hello Martin, I am not convinced by Jeff, because he said

Barron's: You're extremely bullish. Why?

Gendell: This recovery, in my view, is no different than any other recovery. If you have been asleep for the last five years, wake up. If I told you that interest rates were 1¼%, GDP growth is 3% to 4%, the CRB (Commodity Research Bureau Index) is rising to new highs and inflation is 2%, you would probably say the market multiple is 30 or 40. I have never seen so many people whining about a recovery with GDP growth at 3% to 4%.


Dissection:

<<Gendell: This recovery, in my view, is no different than any other recovery>>

There is no hope for consumer recovery because they never got terribly ill, at least not yet.

There is no hope for housing recovery, because housing is in perfect health, at most still is so.

There is no incentive for capital spending recovery, because there is no profitable outlook. This is a consequence of global equalization of cost, to the lowest level, and thus revenue, to the same low level. Some call the process globalization, others term it productivity increase. I see bad news, and march of hundreds of thousands on Capital Hill in 2003.

Just for example, the big three auto are selling more cars than ever, at zero margin, and their stocks trade at multi-year lows, with bloated unfunded pension liability, so why do capital investment?

The traditional levers to recovery are missing, and so what is Jeff talking about, other than his trading book?

<<If I told you that interest rates were 1¼%, GDP growth is 3% to 4%, the CRB (Commodity Research Bureau Index) is rising to new highs and inflation is 2%, you would probably say the market multiple is 30 or 40>>

Interest rate is manipulated down, GDP growth is hedonically adjusted, profit is zero, cost is about to go up (overall tax burden, pension shortfall plug, commodities, war premium), people are losing high paying jobs and stuck with low compensation ones, retirement pot is polluted, and stock prices are way too high for what is coming, namely deflation of business profit, devaluation of currency, default of credit, and debasement of faith in officialdom

<<I have never seen so many people whining about a recovery with GDP growth at 3% to 4%>>

Hedonically calculated profitless growth at the precipice of massive cost increase and at the cusp of fiat asset value dilution should be priced at 5-8 x earnings, 5-10% yield, 50-75% of book and not a cent more.

Having chewed on what Jeff had to say and spitting out same, I do welcome the likes of Jeff and their participation in the market, because the cleansing process will be that much more complete with their help during the coming Year of the Sheep:

Soft, woolly, endearing. These creatures epitomize the gloomy outlook. They know where they are being led. Docile, submissive, never kick-up a fuss in hopes (vain) of being given a reprieve. It is said that wars end and peace is found in the Years of the Sheep. Anybody want to make a wager on that? Attractive odds are on offer.

Chugs, Jay



To: Night Trader who wrote (26162)12/16/2002 3:23:30 PM
From: smolejv@gmx.net  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 74559
 
>>Q: Are you short anything?
A: We are short gold stocks. We think they have little value. We think the asset values are below the stock-market values. If you look at a company like Newmont Mining, with gold at $310 an ounce, there is really no positive cash flow.<<

This guy must have gotten shorter since the interview. Any feet below his knees?

dj