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Politics : Violence against women -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 12:04:38 AM
From: David Lawrence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 79

>>...a nation so advanced is held at a much higher standard than one less fortunate... A double standard, eh? Why should that be, especially when comparing it to a country populated almost exclusively with holier-than-thou Muslims who are purportedly so much closer to their God? One would think that population would be above such horrific behavior.

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 12:20:57 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 79

Higher standard? I don't think so. Ideally, the value of woman's rights isn't based on geography. If you put into practice a higher standard for one country, doesn't that debase the value of women's rights everywhere else? I personally think of all women, everywhere, as equals. Placing a higher standard for women in one country tends to commoditize the issue for all. Women rights have more value here than there? So over there, they're worth quantity "here less X"? Well, if that's the way you choose to practice it. Thus, your opening post, falsely presented as a concern for women's rights, is really just anti-American propaganda exploiting concern for a real cause, only pretending to have any concern for women &#151 women anywhere. BTW, if they're not as valuable "over there", then just what is the value, I again ask? 75 goats, in case 50 was too little an offer? Surely you must know the price, since your making a value judgment of the worth of American women vs. others. What's today's going rate on the ForEx?

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 12:38:54 AM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 79

Remember "General Hospital"? Luke & Laura are the most famous and most popular couple in TV history. The episode with their wedding was the highest rated soap of all-time. Oh, by the way - this came after Luke had raped Laura. Love thy rapist . . . Tom

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 3:57:18 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 79

I haven't checked today's ForEx but it must be at least 200 goats for a woman in Yemen. The prices are giving cause for concern. What was the charade about women's rights you were talking about, again?: state.gov "The law stipulates that the wife's "consent" to the marriage is required; "consent" is defined as "silence" for previously unwed women and "pronouncement of consent" for divorced women. The husband and the wife's "guardian" (usually her father) sign the marriage contract; in Aden and some outlying governorates, the wife also signs. The practice of bride-price payments is widespread, despite efforts to limit the size of such payments."

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 7:04:05 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 79

Okay, we went to Yemen back here #reply-18348176 . Let's now look at a bigger picture and visit Saudi Arabia with the US State Dept.: state.gov "Foreign embassies continued to receive many reports that employers abuse foreign women working as domestic servants. Some embassies of countries with large domestic servant populations maintain safehouses to which their citizens may flee to escape work situations that include forced confinement, withholding of food, beating and other physical abuse, and rape. Often the reported abuse is at the hands of female citizens. During the year, the media reported more frequently on cases involving domestic abuse of women, servants, and children. However, in general the Government considers such cases to be family matters and does not intervene unless charges of abuse are brought to its attention. It is almost impossible for foreign women to obtain redress in the courts due to the courts' strict evidentiary rules and the women's and servants' own fears of reprisals. There were increasing reports during the year of employers being punished for abuse of domestic servants. There are no private support groups or religious associations to assist such women." "If divorced or widowed, a Muslim woman normally may keep her children until they attain a specified age: 7 years for boys; 9 years for girls. Children over these ages are awarded to the divorced husband or the deceased husband's family. Numerous divorced foreign women continued to be prevented by their former husbands from visiting their children after divorce." "In public a woman is expected to wear an abaya (a black garment that covers the entire body) and also to cover her head and hair. The Mutawwa'in generally expect women from Arab countries, and other countries in Asia and Africa to comply more fully with Saudi customs of dress than they do Western women; nonetheless, in recent years they have instructed Western women to wear the abaya and cover their hair and face. During the year, Mutawwa'in continued to admonish and harass women to wear their abayas and cover their hair."

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 7:21:30 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 79

Law on paper vs. actual practice. We'll roll along to Bahrain on our tour: state.gov "Women's groups and health care professionals state that spousal abuse is common, particularly in poorer communities. In general there is little public attention to, or discussion of, the problem. Incidents usually are kept within the family. No government policies or laws explicitly address violence against women. During the year, a few articles appeared in the local press discussing violence against women and the need for laws to defend women who are abused. There are very few known instances of women seeking legal redress for violence. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the courts are not receptive to such cases. Rape is illegal; however, because marital relations are governed by Shari'a law, spousal rape is not a legal concept within the law. It is not uncommon for foreign women working as domestic workers to be beaten or sexually abused (see Sections 6.c. and 6.e.). Numerous cases have been reported to local embassies and the police. However, most victims are too intimidated to sue their employers. Courts reportedly have allowed victims who do appear to sue for damages, return home, or both."

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 7:58:22 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 79

I'll get yelled at, for sure, if I do not devote some tour time to Israel. Which seems funny since the whole opening post of the thread is about "...Women in the Muslim World". Israel has not entirely embraced that particular — honour. The opening post is also about how much it sucks to be a woman in America compared to how joyously wonderful it is to be a woman in the Muslim World. The words "what" and "ever" come to mind. As one would expect, it's not all wine and roses, which is true of all countries. But since it sucks so much America according to our thread founder, and I'll get yelled at for not including Israel in a thread about "Women In the Muslim World", let's check it out in ol' downtown Tel Aviv: state.gov "The law prohibits domestic violence; however, violence against women is a problem, despite the steps taken by the Government and other organizations to reduce violence against women in Jewish and Arab communities. Government funding to combat such violence increased significantly in 1998 but has remained level since. In 1998 the Government appointed a commission to address the subject of domestic violence; on the basis of the commission's recommendations, the Government allotted a supplementary budget allocation to combat domestic violence during this year. Funds went to fund crisis center projects, victim support programs, and education programs. Groups that focus on domestic violence include a committee established by the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs that includes Jewish and Arab NGO's as well as government representatives, and a coalition of human rights organizations; however, women's rights activists reported that most of the groups are funded privately. The Government provides partial funding for 12 shelters for battered women, including 1 exclusively for Arab women and 1 for ultra-Orthodox Jewish women. Women's rights advocates consider this number inadequate. The Government also provides funding for 13 rape crisis centers. There are approximately 10 hot lines and 25 domestic violence prevention and treatment centers, which mainly are funded privately." "Unlike in previous years, there were no reports that Jewish religious extremists attacked physically women whom they considered to be dressed immodestly in public." "Trafficking in women has become a significant problem in recent years. According to recent studies, every year hundreds of women from the former Soviet Union are trafficked to Israel by well-organized criminal networks to work as prostitutes (see Section 6.f.)." (Hey, this must be the mysterious 60 Minutes stuff I'm supposed to have seen live on the Internet!) Hmmm... here's rough spot. What Court does that come from, Bob? Well Johnny, it's frommmmm the "Amalgamated United Islamic Court of How Much It sssSSuckks in Americkkkaaa" (runners-up get Solomonsonite luggage): "Some Islamic law courts in the country have held that Muslim women may not request a divorce, but that women may be forced to consent if a divorce is granted to a man." Okay, so there's some equal time about how much it sucks in America, the topic of this thread (even though this tour portion was brought to you by the fine folks at Mishugane Bros. Produce and Optometrists). Where do we go next?

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 8:12:59 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 79

Libya is, as most people would guess, deplorable. Heck, there's not much sport in even mentioning them: state.gov "In theory popular political participation is provided by the grassroots People's Committees, which are open to both men and women, and which send representatives annually to the national General People's Congress (GPC). In practice the GPC merely approves all recommendations made by Qadhafi." "The Constitution prohibits discrimination based on these factors; however, the Government does not enforce the prohibitions, particularly those against discrimination against women and tribal minorities." "Some nomadic tribes located in remote areas still practice female genital mutilation (FGM) on young girls, a procedure that is condemned widely by international health experts as damaging to both physical and psychological health. Citizens have been implicated in the purchase of Sudanese slaves, mainly southern Sudanese women and children (see Section 6.f.)."

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 8:16:33 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 79

Is Iraq even worth speculating? I stopped reading about right here: state.gov "In October 2000, security forces reportedly beheaded a number of women suspected of prostitution and some men suspected of facilitating or covering up such activities (see Section 5). Security agents reportedly decapitated numerous women and men in front of their family members. According to Amnesty International (AI), the victim's heads were displayed in front of their homes for several days."

To: AmericanVoter who wrote (39)	12/18/2002 8:24:48 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Respond to of 79

That "rape is illegal" thing again — Destination: Iran, Home of the 30-Minute Marriage! state.gov "Rape is illegal; however, the law rarely is enforced, and rape is a widespread problem. The Special Representative noted in his September 2000 report that media reporting on the situation of women has diminished, in part due to the closure of the reform-oriented press (see Section 2.a.)." "Women must ride in a reserved section on public buses and enter public buildings, universities, and airports through separate entrances. Women are prohibited from attending male sporting events, although this restriction does not appear to be enforced universally. While the enforcement of a conservative Islamic dress codes has varied with the political climate since the death of Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989, what women wear in public is not entirely a matter of personal choice. The authorities harass women if their dress or behavior is considered inappropriate, and women may be sentenced to flogging or imprisonment for such violations." "The law allows for the practice of Siqeh, or temporary marriage, a Shi'a custom in which a woman or a girl may become the wife of a married or single Muslim male after a simple and brief religious ceremony. The Siqeh marriage may last for a night or as little as 30 minutes. The bond is not recorded on identification documents, and, according to Islamic law, men may have as many Siqeh wives as they wish." "The Penal Code includes provisions that mandate the stoning of women and men convicted of adultery (see Sections 1.a and 1.c.)." Equal Rights or Egalitarian Barbarism? You decide.