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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (888)	12/24/2002 10:25:57 AM
From: William B. Kohn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15987

The arguement that the US is hiding something is about as bogus as it gets. There were more than one copy of the report handed into the UN, but originally one copy came to the UN HQ in New York and it is from this copy that others were made, but and this is critical, other copies of the report came to the UN and were held in Vienna. If, we are hiding 8000 pages, then if the UN felt other pages are necessary to provide a more complete picture without spreading information that they believe is not healthy for other nations to have, all they would have to do is make copies for the documents that are in UN control in Vienna. If they choose not to do this, it is because the pages, however many there are, should be withheld. bill@stoptryingtopullthewoolovermyeyesandtellliesabouttheusa.com

To: zonder who wrote (888)	12/24/2002 10:47:05 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15987

More nations attack Iraq documents Britain and even France join the US in condemning the weapons declaration, saying it simply aims to dupe the world LONDON - With the United States leading the charge, several countries yesterday called into question the declaration made by Iraq that it has no weapons of mass destruction. Not mincing his words, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said that President Saddam Hussein had put his country closer to war by trying to mislead the world with a 12,000-page declaration, which the US said was an 'incredible joke'. On the Iraqi action, Mr Straw said: 'There has already been one trigger pulled. They now, in a sense, have their finger on the other trigger.' While US and Britain will not launch an immediate attack on Iraq, he emphasised that a clear warning has to go out to Iraq that it must cooperate fully with the United Nations and its inspectors. US Secretary of State Colin Powell said that the US was 'disappointed but not deceived' by the Iraqi dossier. Even France, which has taken a different tack from the US and Britain over the Iraqi issue, said that the declaration offerred little new information. The French UN ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere said: 'Despite its size, the Iraqi declaration contains little new.' It 'did not give truthful answers to the questions put to it in 1998', he said, raising doubts over whether Iraq had actually suspended its prohibited activities. 'This first evaluation confirms the need to go forward and to give the inspectors total backing in their work,' he said at the end of a closed-door presentation by the chief weapons inspectors. Taking a more cautious line, Canada and the European Union said that they would support a 'unified international response' to the threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. A joint statement issued after talks between Prime Minister Jean Chretien, Dutch Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who presides over the European Council, and European Commission president Romano Prodi reiterated that key US allies want any military action against Mr Saddam to come under United Nations auspices. 'Dealing with the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programme requires a unified international response,' the statement said. Mr Chretien has said Canada would take part in a UN-authorised campaign against Iraq, but he remains unclear about his government's support for a US-led attack without UN backing. The joint statement with the EU called for Iraq to comply with the UN resolution without conditions. But Germany, Australia and Saudi Arabia were more muted in their responses and urged the US to give peace a chance. German Defence Minister Peter Struck said yesterday that Berlin expected Iraq to be given a chance to improve its arms declaration. Australian Prime Minister John Howard noted that while Iraq had failed to give a full account of its weapons, he did not adopt the US assessment of it. 'Our position is that we want Iraq to fully cooperate and fully disclose and fully comply, and if that happens we can avoid military conflict,' he said. Agreeing that war should be avoided, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz urged the US to take a cautious stance. 'Prince Abdullah said a war should be avoided as it will not resolve the problem, but only have a negative impact on the region as well as the world,' his spokesman said. Meanwhile, Iraq has denied that it failed to make a full declaration. 'Iraq is not in a material breach. This is the interpretation of the US and does not represent the interpretation of the whole international community,' Mr Mohammed Salman, Iraq's deputy ambassador to the United Nations, said. Iraq is not without its supporters. Some 160 European, US, and Arab anti-war activists meeting in Cairo said they planned to send 'human shields' to Iraq if the US decided to declare a war on Baghdad. --AP, AFP straitstimes.asia1.com.sg

To: zonder who wrote (888)	12/24/2002 7:11:19 PM
From: lorne	Respond to of 15987

zonder. This article...." America tore out 8000 pages of Iraq dossier [Any ideas as to why this should be necessary?] sundayherald.com By James Cusick and Felicity Arbuthnot"...... FYI. Felicity Arbuthnot really likes Iraq...a lot. A few more articles of Hers. Global Brain No.196a: Iraq's children: Paying Washington's price with their lives by Felicity Arbuthnot. mai.flora.org mai.flora.org Conference to End Sanctions against Iraq sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Not Available Due to Sanctions By Felicity Arbuthnot webhome.idirect.com members.shaw.ca iraqchat.com imprint.uwaterloo.ca

To: zonder who wrote (888)	12/27/2002 6:40:22 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 15987

<America tore out 8000 pages of Iraq dossier [Any ideas as to why this should be necessary?]> I suppose so they could claim that the dossier was incomplete and that would be prima facie [which is fancy latin for "near enough"] evidence that Iraq was dissembling, obstructing and by crikey, that's a casus belli [which is poncy latin or something for "I really don't like you and any excuse is a good excuse to show you what we big, tough guys can do with our AC-130s"]. Since the world remains a dog eat dog world and Saddam works on the same principle, I don't find anything wrong with the USA deciding to usurp Saddam and co. But reputations are hard won, easily lost and once a liar with an Office of Disinformation it's tough to look all pious again. Virginity is lost once, rarely regained. Turning over a new leaf is okay for leopards with spots, but politicians have a tough time turning leaves. The USA is a much better dog to have standing over everyone than any of the alternatives currently on offer. I might even prefer the USA to my current Stalinist leader, Helen Clark of Helengrad. But on reflection, I prefer the current arrangement where I hire the USA to produce CDMA and use USS Enterprise and AC-130s to keep the Moslem Head-Hackers at bay [not to mention Jiang Zemin and any others who might get it into their heads to be ruler of the world]. Unfortunately, the USA, unlike the British Empire, doesn't adopt the subjugated as regular citizens - we remain aliens and Guantanamo Bay candidates if we look a bit dodgy. None of that habeas corpus nonsense [more smart alecky latin, which means "Hey, you can't just put people in gaol without a casus belli or prima facie"]. I know you know that latin stuff Zonder, I'm translating for regular sheeple. Until We the Sheeple do something to establish the UN as a meaningful manager of the global commons, we might as well have the USA stomping around the place and not whine too much about it. I'd rather have King George II as ruler [which is ironic given the foaming at the mouth which goes on in the USA about the evil British Empire from which they fought for Independence on 4 July, not to mention freedom, human rights and all that stuff which wicked China ignores, unlike the great and wonderful USA]. I've got my cabin. Call me Uncle Tom. I'm practising forelock tugging. Mqurice [Imagine having BlandButMindless and Hawkmoon as rulers of the world - even with the moderating influence of the dominatrix ultimus Cobalt Blue to ensure habeas corpses. And THEY are the civilized ones. Well, maybe not BBM. But Hawk seems usually reasonable though I'd have to question his judgement getting in tow with a religious wacko who thought some spousal corpses not a bad idea as religious prophecy] By the way, your post 888 was a lucky grub in the Asian numerology stakes - especially with the Year of the Sheeple about to start [in Chinese New Year], which the rest of us can deem to be 2003. Maybe it really will be the Year of the Sheople. I wish!