To: Bob Trocchi who wrote (7319 ) 12/27/2002 3:52:10 PM From: Oeconomicus Respond to of 9677 Bob, while I'd agree generally that license revenues should carry much higher gross margins than services (prof. svcs, maintenance, support), services for any kind of sophisticated business application vendor (mid & upper end accounting, CRM, ERP, etc.) are likely to produce significantly larger revenue numbers, so the contribution from them in dollar terms may be comparable or in some cases greater. I haven't done an extensive survey, but an enterprise player I know fairly well typically shows services revenues running about twice license revenues. For them, gross margins on licenses are upper 90% range while for services it is about half that. So, for every $100k of licenses, there is about $200k of services, together producing about $190k of gross profit - half from each. FSTW, as one might expect ;-), it an entirely different story. Take a look at the latest financials to see:firstwave.net YTD 2002, professional services and support produced about 5x the revenues from license fees. In addition, services margins ran about 68% while on licenses is was only 48% (31% in Q3). In Q3 a year ago, the margin on licenses was actually negative. So, what does that tell us? 1) margins on services are not likely sustainable, even if the revenue number is - and it's probably not either unless license sales pick up greatly. 2) license volume sucks. it barely covers the relatively fixed costs associated with it (amortization of capitalized software development costs being the biggest). Bottom line is, for whatever reason, services have juiced FSTW's revenues and margins this year. That doesn't make a lot of sense for a product where "ease of implementation" is one of the key selling points and is almost surely not sustainable. Furthermore, considering that .NET and the workflow tools are supposed to make things even easier, it makes even less sense to expect it to continue. JMO, of course, and you know how bitter I am. LOL, >VBG<, etc. ;-) Bob