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To: Dealer who wrote (56595)12/31/2002 1:36:02 AM
From: elpolvo  Respond to of 65232
 
dealie-

thanks for that post.

there are other views...

but eventually they all lead to the same place...

the place where it finally hurts us all enough
to change something.

"no lastima bastantes"

-el polvo



To: Dealer who wrote (56595)12/31/2002 7:04:17 AM
From: limtex  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 65232
 
Dealie - There were tens of millions of refugees in Europe in May 1945 and today there are none. On the other hand Arabs have been deliberately kept as refugees ofr this peiod when they could easily have been absorbed locally in the Arab Countries who expelled their Jewish populations.

The idea of a distinct people know as Palestinians is an invention of the Arabs and their friends designed only to drive the Jews out of Israel.

There has never been a Palestinian entity. All the boundaries in the Middle East were drawn up by the British and Msr Picot during and shortly after WW1.

What is the ethnic diffence or cutlural difference between Arab residents north of the Israel Lebanon border and thise in Northern Galilee?

What is the ethinc or cultuyral difference between Arabs east of the Jordan river and Arabs west of the Jordan river?

There is none in either of these cases as before 1918 the borders I have referrred to simply didn't exist. Imediately after General Allenby occupied the area it was designated Occupied Enemy Territory North and Occupied Enemy Territory South. The nothern part then belonging to France and the Southern to Gt Britain.

Just after the Six Day War the Arabs came up with this idea of a the PLO as representative of a so called people called the Palestinians as opposed to the other Arabs in the general area.

This scheme was nurtured by the Europeans, depserate for Arab arms business and oil and eventually by the United Nations and it has stuck and now there are millions who actually believe it but propaganda can't change facts.

During the Camp David negotiations Mr Arafat a good deal of his time trying to convince everyone else that Jerusalem was never the site of the Jewish Temple. This is one clear example of many of how the Arabs once an idea as I have justoutlined above gets off the ground whole new facedes are constructed to try to embelish and expand it.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was in Berlin in November 1941 and met with Hitler. Late 1941 is very important in Holocasut terms since it is at this time that the orders to butcher 11m people were given The Mufti's presence there at that time is very interesting. The protocol of their meeting is available on the web, so are all the documents between the Mufti and Ribbentrop and Himmler.

So is the document dated 1943 where the Mufti called for the Hungarian Jews to be "sent to Poland" so as to "minimise the damage they can cause".

The Mufti was of course Arafats father's brother.

Take a peek at this:-

Attorney General: I now want to submit Wisliceny's notes dated 26 July 1946, which were also written in prison, and verified by Mr. Hagag, and which are already in your possession arising out of Bar-Shalom's evidence regarding the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and his connections with Adolf Eichmann. I have the original. The Court will observe that this document served as a subject for interrogation on pages 558-570.
Relying on the Court's decision of this morning, I request you to admit this document on the grounds of its importance, both because of the connection between Eichmann and that man and because of the plans and machinations which were prepared in order to destroy the Jewish population of Palestine after the victory of the Axis Powers, and also because of the fact that the Accused himself was asked to react to this document.

Presiding Judge: Is he mentioned here in this document?

Attorney General: Yes. The relations - according to Wisliceny - between these two personalities, Hajj Amin al- Husseini and Adolf Eichmann, began already in the autumn of 1937.

Dr. Servatius: I wish to voice my objection to the submission of this document, but submit to the Court's decision.

Presiding Judge: Decision No. 9

We admit in evidence the statement of Wisliceny regarding the Mufti, for the reasons that were intimated in Decision No. 7.

Attorney General: This actually is already to be found in the Court's file.

Presiding Judge: You have said so. But it is correct that there is also need for a special submission.

Attorney General: Except that the original is now to be found in the Court's file. The original of this document was submitted by Mr. Less during his evidence, at the time when he submitted all the documents, so that there is only a photocopy of the original.

Presiding Judge: It seems to me that we have the original before us here.

Attorney General: Yes, this is the original.

Presiding Judge: In this instance you have given us only one copy - you are reducing our "ration."

Attorney General: The Court will obtain everything. I regret that there was some slight confusion this morning in the provision of copies, but we shall produce the material to the Court forthwith.

Presiding Judge: This will be marked T/89.

Attorney General: With the Court's permission I shall read T/89:

"As I was aware from my activities in the service of the head office of SD in Berlin, there already existed in 1937 an intelligence link between the SD and the Grand Mufti in Jerusalem. These connections operated through the DNB, Official German News Service in Palestine, Dr. Reichert with Otto von Bolschwing and Leopold von Mildenstein, both of whom were with the SD in Berlin. In 1936-1937, Mildenstein was head of the Department for Jewish Affairs of the SD.
Later on, this connection was transferred to Bureau VI of the Secret Overseas Intelligence Service, to the Head Office for Reich Security, the Reichssicherheitshauptamt, created in 1939. Dr. Reichert was the chief confidant of the SD. He lost his life in 1941 in a railway accident in Hanover.

n the autumn of 1937, Adolf Eichmann and Herbert Hagen, previously Sturmbannfuehrer in Paris, who at that time worked in the Jewish Department of the SD, arranged a journey to Palestine and Egypt. This trip was intended to include, incidentally, securing of general information on Zionist questions, and also a visit to the Grand Mufti, and Dr. Reichert was to have acted as intermediary in arranging it. But the visit did not materialize since the British authorities restricted the stay of Eichmann and Hagen to 48 hours, despite their tourist visas. In Cairo the two of them then had discussions with Arab nationalists - amongst them a journalist from Jerusalem who belonged to the circle of the Grand Mufti.

After the Mufti al-Husseini arrived in Germany, he paid a visit to Himmler. A short while thereafter the Grand Mufti visited the director of the Jewish Department at the Gestapo Bureau IV, Obersturmbannfuehrer Adolf Eichmann, in his office in Berlin, 116 Kurfuerstenstrasse. I no longer remember the exact date of the visit. Possibly it was the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942.

By chance I was with Eichmann in Berlin a few days later, when he told me in detail about this visit. Eichmann lectured to the Grand Mufti in his Map Room, where he had collected statistical accounts of the Jewish population of various European countries - he lectured in detail about the solution of the Jewish Question in Europe.

The Grand Mufti, according to him, was most impressed and said to Eichmann that he had already asked Himmler and had in fact secured Himmler's consent on this point, that a representative of Eichmann should come to Jerusalem as his personal adviser when he, the Grand Mufti, would go back after the victory of the Axis Powers. In that conversation Eichmann asked me whether I was not willing to accept the post. But I rejected in principle such Oriental adventures. Eichmann was greatly impressed by the personality of the Grand Mufti. He repeatedly said to me, both then and on a later occasion, that the Mufti had made a powerful impression on him, and also on Himmler, and that he had an acknowledged influence in Arab-Jewish affairs.

"To my knowledge, Eichmann saw the Mufti from time to time and spoke to him. At any rate he mentioned this in the course of a conversation in the summer of 1944 in Budapest. At the end of 1942 I tried, upon the initiative of a group of the Joint from Bratislava, to influence Eichmann and Himmler to prevent the extermination of the Jews of Europe. One plan was the rescue of Jewish children, whose emigration to Palestine was to be carried out via Romania. Eichmann, with the approval of Himmler, gave an order to bring about ten thousand Jewish children from Poland to Theresienstadt. It was planned to exchange these children for German civilian prisoners, through the services of the International Red Cross. I had already discussed with the representatives of the Joint in Bratislava the possibility of the emigration of adults as escorts to the transport, and the number that could be considered for this purpose. Some of the children actually reached Theresienstadt, as I was told by Dr. Seidel, the person who was then the Camp Commandant, in reply to my question on the subject.

Then I was summoned to Berlin by Eichmann and he disclosed to me that the idea of the planned operation had become known to the Grand Mufti, by means of his intelligence service in Palestine. As a result he protested vigorously to Himmler, using the argument that these Jewish children would, within a few years become adults and would strengthen the Jewish elements in Palestine. Following this, Himmler [as he told me] forbade the whole operation and even issued a prohibition in respect of cases in the future, that no Jew should be permitted to emigrate to Palestine from territories under German control.

"I informed the Joint group of this prohibition which had been secured by the Grand Mufti from Himmler despite Eichmann's forbidding me to do so. This attitude of Himmler had a crucial influence on all these matters, especially in 1944 in Budapest. In this way any chance of reaching a compromise on the question of the Jews in Hungary came to nought, since Palestine was the only country which could be considered for the absorption of a greater number of Jewish women and children.

"I should also add that a liaison officer of the Security Police was attached to the Grand Mufti throughout the duration of his stay in Germany. This was a Hauptsturmfuehrer whose name I no longer remember. General-Major Walter Schellenberg, Head of Bureau VI (the Overseas Intelligence Service) would have to have known about this. Schellenberg was in the Nuremberg prison at the end of June."



To: Dealer who wrote (56595)12/31/2002 9:10:15 AM
From: synchro_fan  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 65232
 
Let us pray for peace:
From The World Prayer Center/Pastor Ted Haggard and The World Prayer Team -
Colorado Springs, CO USA

From Pastor Ted Haggard
New Life Church -- A Family Ministry Center :

"Last week the Spirit of the Lord woke me in the middle of the night and powerfully spoke to me. He told me that if we could mobilize 1,000,000 intercessors (One million) to pray for Saddam Hussein, that he would leave Iraq, thus avoiding the need for a war. After He spoke to me, I saw a series of visions of people suffering because of the horrors of war. Then I realized that God had a plan that He was going to fulfill one way or another, but that His greatest desire would be to remove Saddam without the suffering of so many.

I have shared this with C. Peter Wagner, Chuck Pierce, the International Coalition of Apostles and briefly on Daystar network, and felt prompted this morning while praying at the World Prayer Center to write to you about it.

My heart is burning within me about this, because we have the ability to simply have Saddam leave Iraq like so many other dictators have left their countries thus opening the door for freedom without a war.

I think, though, that we only have until the end of December to rally the troops to pray"

Pastor Ted Haggard
PRAY! for peace in the Persian Gulf



To: Dealer who wrote (56595)12/31/2002 9:51:01 AM
From: Murrey Walker  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 65232
 
Dealie, this is a legitimate response from someone who probably knows more than I. That said, the other side of this conflict can and will offer their poignant version of this tragedy in rebuttal.

My feelings are similar (Coincidence? Probably not.) to polvies'. This will wind down when both sides (and their respective backers) want it to.