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Politics : Impeach George W. Bush -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jttmab who wrote (18632)	1/3/2003 12:40:31 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 93284

It was a small disappointment that the German and Italian Americans that were put in the camps didn't receive the same acknowledgement. Were they interned? This is the first I'd heard of that. I'd wondered why the Japanese were singled out. The only worse would have been that they were more "different" and more easily identified. And another quick quiz: How much trouble did the US have with Germans and Italians residing here during the war? I know there was no problem with Japanese. (Of course, they were in camps, but prior to the war the only Japanese spies here were embassy personnel- -and everybody's ambassadors are legal spies.) It is standing legal precedence. That's no charge. Everything is "standing legal precedence" to every administration. Either that or legislation. Gov'ts and bureaucrats live and breathe that. It would be interesting to know just what happened to persons of German extraction in Britain and France just after WW2 broke out. Not exactly sure why you didn't also include Japan and Italy, but otherwise I agree. An internet search has so far turned up nothing. Which means (a) nothing happened, or (b) I haven't hit on the right search terms, or (c) I haven't found the right search engine. Considering the hysteria that gripped Britain and France at the outbreak of WW1 in particular, I'd be surprised if nothing happened.

To: jttmab who wrote (18632)	1/3/2003 1:27:19 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 93284

OK. Time for you to open fire on Canada: worldweb.com To this date it has not been determined what was the driving force for the Internment. Was it due to wartime xenophobia and war fever, or the Economic benefits of a forced-labour system, or bigoted-driven emotions against Canada's first non-Official language speaking immigrants? ............................................................ These series of pages were motivated by the reluctance of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) to show Yurij Luhovy's excellent documentary Freedom Had A Price. It took over a years' worth of lobbying of the CBC and the government to get this film aired on the CBC. The CBC found excuse after excuse of why they could not air this excellent film. When they finally did show it, it was aired Sunday April 23rd 1995 at 4 PM EST with very little prior notice. It was not apparent in any TV guide what this film was: it was simply labeled "Sense of History" with no explanation of what it was. In other words, the CBC successfully camouflaged the show to minimize it's exposure to the Canadian viewing public. infoukes.com And that points up something: There hardly was anyone in Britain except British in 1914 1nd 1939. So there was essentially no problem. Would you suggest that the US prevent future problems by now expelling all those not of European origin? It makes it much less likely that we will have problems like the Japanese in WW2 and Muslims now, you know. It's easy for you to sit on the other side of the pond and throw rocks. It's not your problem. If Islamic extremists blow up Parliament, then Harrods, what do you think might be done in the UK? You want something more recent involving your beloved new homeland? Confidential cabinet papers released on Tuesday reveal why the British Government disregarded all advice, and introduced internment, one of the most politically damaging measures in modern Northern Ireland history. news.bbc.co.uk Know something? In spite of your knee jerk "Blame America First" reaction, I don't think we are the only ones to intern enemy aliens. We were not even the first. And we were not the first democracy. Your friends beat us to the punch (in the form of Canadians). Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

To: jttmab who wrote (18632)	1/3/2003 1:51:32 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 93284

Let him who is without sin..... DRACONIAN anti-terrorist laws which will put Britain into direct conflict with the European Convention on Human Rights are to be set out out this week as new evidence emerges that Britain could be targeted for attack. Increased powers of arrest for the police to interrogate suspects and moves to abolish some rights of judicial appeal for immigrants turned back at airports will figure in up to three separate emergency Bills to go before Parliament. .......................................................... The Terrorism Act made it harder for terrorist groups to operate in Britain, by proscribing 21 named organisations - 16 of them Islamic - including Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda group. The proscribed list makes it difficult for these groups to advertise, such as on websites, or trying to recruit without coming to police attention and facing arrest. Once a group has been designated as a terrorist organisation, it is a crime to belong to the group, support it financially, display its emblems, or share a platform with known members. Groups on the list can ask to be removed and lodge an appeal with an independent tribunal. So far, four organisations have asked to be removed; two requests were rejected and the other two are being considered. .......................................................... Is France a democracy, jttmab? Yes? No? In France, after the terrorist attacks by Algerians in the mid-1990s, magistrates were given powers to hold suspects almost indefinitely while inquiries continued. But such powers run counter to the British legal concept of habeas corpus and would fall foul of the Human Rights Act. What else could be done? The most draconian measure, which would be considered in the case of a formally declared war, is internment. Emergency powers did exist to intern suspected terrorists in Northern Ireland, though the practice has not been used since the mid-1970s. The Government removed internment powers two years ago as part of the Northern Ireland political process. banner.org.uk

To: jttmab who wrote (18632)	1/3/2003 2:00:48 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 93284

You thought about moving to, say, Saudi Arabia? It may sonn be the only place untouched by the War on Terror. EU to push through terror laws French police and soldiers at Charles de Gaulles airport Rights groups say Europe is becoming a police state By European affairs correspondent William Horsley European Union ministers in Brussels are to approve plans for a radical extension of EU powers aimed at protecting Europe against terrorism. Human Rights Watch in Brussels says the anti-terrorism measures will allow the EU authorities to harass and prosecute those who take part in legitimate protests The drastic new measures follow evidence that suspected Islamic terrorist cells were intending to use chemical weapons or bombs to attack high-profile targets in Paris, Brussels and Strasbourg. They will enable police and prosecutors in any part of the EU to arrest suspects anywhere else on the continent and put them on trial promptly. But justice and interior ministers are to push the plan through with little public debate. Civil rights groups are warning that the meeting may lay the foundations of turning Europe into a police state. Shock response Evidence of planned attacks uncovered by police and security services has shocked the 15-nation European Union. Wreckage of World Trade Center Authorities are desperate to prevent a similar attack in Europe It has been quick to respond with the new powers for police and prosecutors to hunt down those involved with acts of terrorism or other serious crimes. The governments want to overcome a host of differences in legal systems and police practices built up over centuries. The EU's dismantling of most of its internal borders has created a "single market in crime". Now the aim is to match that with a "single market in law and order". The plan:- * All 15 EU states are signing up to a common definition of terrorism. This is needed to make the new police and judicial powers effective across an area with a population of nearly 400 million people. Later all the EU applicant states in eastern Europe and the Mediterranean will sign up too. * The EU will create a system of "pan-European arrest warrants". This will mean that a court in Spain or Italy can issue a warrant for a suspect in, say, Germany or Britain, for any of a wide range of serious offences. Then the authorities in the country where the suspect lives only needs to confirm the person's identity, and he or she should be handed over within a few weeks. Appeals procedures which can now result in delays of several years in extradition cases will be curtailed and loopholes closed. * Minimum penalties, some more severe than at present, will be agreed among all EU states. The European parliament wants Europol to be transformed into a cross-border police force with powers similar to those of the FBI in the US. * Europol has already set up a new Anti-terrorism Task Force to identify suspects and potential targets in Europe and it will receive much more complete intelligence from police and security services in memberstates. The whole system will be administered by "Eurojust", which should clear away obstacles as the EU takes over new authority in law and order areas which until now have been jealously guarded as the preserve of national sovereignty. * The EU should sign an accord with the United States to remove the current maze of obstacles to close cooperation with US authorities in investigating terrorist suspects and extraditing them to America. * EU heads of government should approve all this at a summit in Laeken near Brussels on December 14-15th. Serious barriers A number of serious barriers could still derail parts of this grand plan. Austria, Denmark, Greece and Luxembourg all have constitutions or laws which are incompatible with it, as they ban the transfer their nationals to any foreign jurisdiction. Hamburg police arrest terrorist suspect Suspected cells have been uncovered across Europe Some national parliaments may baulk at such a sudden leap forward in European integration. In the past Britain has been slow to agree to requests from France for extradition of wanted North African suspects implicated in bombings in Paris in the mid-1990s. The French appear to have turned a blind eye to Basque militants wanted for acts of violence in Spain. Also, the EU bans extraditions to any state where the death penalty may be applied, and is fiercely critical of the US over its dozens of judicial killings every year. Any new code on that subject would be very hard to agree and maintain. Would the EU really refuse to extradite a prime suspect like Osama Bin Laden if he happened to be arrested somewhere in Europe? Civil rights But the most determined opposition comes from European civil rights organisations, some of whom are warning openly that Europe is becoming a police state. A number of serious barriers could still derail parts of this grand plan Human Rights Watch in Brussels says the anti-terrorism measures will allow the EU authorities to harass and prosecute those who take part in legitimate protests. It also fears that the "fight against terrorism" will be used to justify tougher rules on asylum and immigration, undermining Europe's commitment to the Geneva Convention on Refugees and poisoning race relations in European countries. Fair Trials Abroad, which campaigns for the rights of people facing abuses of justice across the EU, says the new measures will make serious miscarriages of justice more likely. Stephen Jakobi, its director, points to the way the Italian police responded to July's mass protests in Genoa by beating up dozens of activists visiting from abroad, and then keeping them incommunicado from their lawyers for days. "We cannot afford that kind of thing in the new Europe," he said. Fierce opposition Civil rights groups object fiercely to new security laws in individual countries. Britain will permit foreign terrorist suspects to be detained indefinitely without trial. Armed British police at Heathrow airport Britain will allow indefinite detention without trial Germany is discarding half a century of self-restraint in matters of internal security since the defeat of Hitler and his Gestapo, to enact laws giving police extra powers to eavesdrop, to monitor private bank accounts and to deport "undesirables". French police have been given new powers to stop and search citizens at will, in the hope of catching terrorists or those who support them. The creation of a virtual European state in law and order is happening in a great rush, in response to fears aroused by the attacks on 11 September. European governments believe the terrorists have forced liberal societies to re-evaluate the limits of tolerance. In doing so, are they sweeping away rights and safeguards of individual freedoms that were hard won over generations? It is a difficult question for EU heads of government who want to show they are doing all that is needed to defeat the enemy within. Investigation European police have made more than 30 significant arrests since 11 September and uncovered the following cells: * Hamburg: Police find flat used by Mohammed Atta and others who took part in the atrocities in the US. Three more suspects are still at large * Madrid: Phone-taps lead to the arrest of eight suspects with alleged links to Mr Atta, who were planning further attacks in Europe. * Frankfurt and Munich: Several arrests are linked to a planned bomb attack of the Christmas market in the French city of Strasbourg, home of the European parliament * Brussels: Police arrest one man after the discovery of bomb-making materials in the basement of an Arab restaurant. This arrest and others in Milan linked to plan to blow up the US Embassy in Paris or the Nato headquarters in Brussels. * London: Several Islamic clerics are suspected of terrorist links but remain free, pending new emergency laws. The city has long been the headquarters of exiled Arab dissidents seeking to overthrow their own governments at home. US attempts to extradite four Arabs from London for trial over the 11 September attacks and the 1998 bombing of two US embassies in east Africa - also blamed on al-Qaeda - have so far failed. news.bbc.co.uk

To: jttmab who wrote (18632)	1/3/2003 2:11:14 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 93284

BINGO! In September 1939 there were some 60,000 German and Austrian (hence described as 'enemy') refugees in Britain, as well as between 15-20,000 German and Austrian nationals who had been domiciled in the UK before the war. Some were pro-Nazi and quickly interned, while the rest were classified by special tribunals into Categories A, B, and C. Category A were deemed the most suspect and also interned; B were restricted in their movements, and C were left alone. All this changed drastically in May 1940 following the German attack on the Low Countries and France, when 2,000 enemy alien males in coastal areas were immediately interned. Within a week all B class aliens, men and women, also began to be rounded up. Many were refugees from Germany, Austria, or Czechoslovakia. After Italy entered the war in June 1940, Italians were also rounded up. By late June all C class men under 70 were also rounded up, the remaining C class aliens being heavily restricted in their movements and civil rights. The interned first passed through military internment camps, then to the Isle of Man, and then the intention was to deport them to such places as Canada and Australia. scotsatwar.org.uk And it seems that the British didn't just single out Germans: Scots got caught in the net too. You may take your superior attitude and shove where the sun don't shine.