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Pastimes : The Boxing Ring Revived -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (3549)	1/6/2003 8:17:31 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 7720

Okay, I'm confused. You wrote: " I consider disposing of an embryo the equivalent of clipping one's toenails. Not late term abortions. There's personal injury and then there's personal injury. The personal injury involved in harming late term fetus is vastly greater than than for an embryo, in most cases." You have at other times, as I recall, expressed concern about partial birth abortions, implying, if I read you right, that you would support a ban on them except to save the life of the mother. Now you seem to be saying there's no legal justification for making abortion illegal in the late stages, but you would consider that some "interested parties" other than the mother could come forward, what, to prevent the abortion? I'm confused. A woman is eight months and three weeks pregnant. But then her husband, a professional football player, has a serious injury and is paralized from the waist down. While they have plenty of insurance and retirement benefits, and they have no financial worries, they can afford a full time nurse for him and a full time nanny for the baby if htey want them. But from a personal point of view she doesn't want to have to deal with the stress of taking care of a newly wheelchair bound husband and a new baby at the same time. And she doesn't want to have it and give it up for adoption because she doesn't want to think about somebody else raising their love child. So she wants to do a partial birth abortion on a baby that could perfectly well live outside the womb if delivered right not by C-section. Should she have the right to decide entirely on her own whether to have the abortion? That seems a pretty simple question. But I'm confused by where you would come down on it. (If you need more specifics of the hypothetical, I'll be glad to make them up, just let me know what you need.)

To: Lane3 who wrote (3549)	1/7/2003 11:35:07 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 7720

If someone punches the mother in the stomach, causing injury to the unborn child. Who has suffered the personal injury? The child is born with a disability. Did the child suffer personal injury? The mother may have costs associated with the injury and so the mother may have a case for the courts, but the child is the one who is suffering bodily injury. Did the injury occur at birth? If not how can one have a claim of personal injury?

To: Lane3 who wrote (3549)	1/7/2003 3:12:09 PM
From: Solon	Respond to of 7720

"It doesn't have any right to exist. It doesn't have any rights at all. That's my point. If you want to protect fetuses and make a public statement on the value that society places on them, it has to be done on some other grounds than the right of the fetus, IMO. I suggested injury to some actual person. Like the mother or father or other interested party" Exactly. The greatest protection for the fetus is that it is the personal property of the mother and is precious to her. The fetus is her life until such time as it disconnects from her bloodstream and organs and develops the ability to live or die without violating the fundamental rights of another. Also, both parents are subject to the peer pressures of their society, community, and family, and are thus guided toward a compassionate and respectful regard for and response to human life--if not to all life. One hopes that the time will come when "fatally flawed" will be the only justification given for abortions, but it is hard to imagine it on this planet.