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To: reaper who wrote (213809)	1/10/2003 4:30:03 PM
From: yard_man	Respond to of 436258

wish this POS would go back into the 20's nice cup n handle?? finance.yahoo.com I think these (i.e. COF, NCEN, ABFI) just prove the credit bubble hasn't come close to popping yet. I know there have been a few big names get kicked, but I mean a number of subprimes completely out of the biz.

To: reaper who wrote (213809)	1/11/2003 10:59:54 AM
From: mishedlo	Respond to of 436258

A new IBM business2.com "I have not met a single competitive situation where I have not won," he boasts. After a grueling four-month bake-off in which the contestants had to meet eBay's strenuous performance requirements, IBM won: eBay went with IBM's WebSphere software. eBay confirms that it was dazzled by IBM's expertise with the open-standard Java programming language and the power Java offered in a world of ever-increasing technological complexity. That's particularly telling given that BEA's partner, Sun, invented Java. In fact, open-standards technologies are powering many of the most remarked-upon aspects of IBM's resurgence under Gerstner. They fuel the explosion of IBM's services business by making it easier for IBM consultants to stitch together varied hardware and software systems. Any comments on that? No doubt IBM is targeting just this area, but a lot of that "growth" comes from buying companies at inflated prices, selling off other assets and having that go into earnings when it should be one time gains. Everyone reports "one time" losses. No one ever mentions "one time" gains. I believe IBM paid dearly for its last acuisition but I can not prove it. I guess all I can say is we will see. Is IBM a new force to be reconned with? "Profits grew faster than revenues under Gerstner because of some deft financial engineering. (Gerstner made the numbers with the help of an overfunded pension and massive share-buyback programs.)" IBM wasted mammoth amounts of $ in share buybacks at prices much much higher. That and financial tricks is the only thing that kept "earnings" growing. IBM cannibalized cash to maintain the appearance of EPS growth. CEO Larry Ellison put it to an audience of software developers in December, IBM's sales pitch is basically: "Hey, whatever you got, this morass, this briar patch of computing, we'll just take it over and we'll raise your prices." I agree with this, although I can not stand Ellison. In addition, everyone talks as if these systems can all just magically and seemlessly talk together just because they are "open". In practice that has not really been the case, and when it has, performance has sucked. Charles Schawb moved all his systems to Sun/client server then back to mainframe hardware when performance sucked. Furthermore, if selling services is what is hot, then competition will drive down the value of selling services, exactly the same way it drove down the value of selling mainframes, PC's, and storage devices. There is too much competition out there. Everyone is not stealing market share at the same time. Why does this number keep going up? Long Term Debt $17,773,000,000 $16,270,000,000 $16,665,000,000 $15,963,000,000 We all keep harping about pension funding, debt, etc. What is the other picture. Is IBM really growing and if so how long can it continue? What is the true financial state of affairs? Reaper can i get you to do a financial analysis of IBM? M