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To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (8050)	1/10/2003 10:10:40 PM
From: tony	Respond to of 306849

Very well put. I am with you.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (8050)	1/10/2003 10:48:42 PM
From: fatty	Respond to of 306849

>the reality is that this is simply a learned skill and there is no reason to go abroad for this type of "expertise"... Well, what is not a 'learned skill'? Are you telling me that some people were born to be a lawyer or engineer? >Next thing you know, its academia inflation on all these operational jobs that don't really require a master's degree, esentially locking out all US based workers who appeared to be lesser-qualified (but really weren't since who knows what the background of the H1-Bs really was anyway!). I wish that was the reality. But the truth was that the bubble economy created lots of useless technologies/services so that any body who knew how to type could easily get a $75k job. As much as I'm a strong opponent of H1-B, I believe the US companies saw a good bargain in H1-B. Otherwise, how could it last almost a decade? Perhaps if H1-B didn't exist, the bubble could have popped earlier and the country as a whole may be already recovering now.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (8050)	1/11/2003 11:40:52 PM
From: get shorty	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 306849

Just for the record, I am not a champion of the H1B program. The H1B program is really no different than any other govt. program that was created out of a real need, only to become a clusterf*k. It was subject to the same abuses and outright frauds as welfare, social security, medicare, unemployment, etc. Someone will always find a way to work the system* to make a buck. When you have declining numbers of engineering and science graduates, preceding a period of historically low unemployment, you get a genuine shortage of human capital. It's that simple. "I believe that executives in silicon valley (who lobbied heavily for the program) beleived that they could get PhD's and other highly creative intelligent types from india for 50K/year." I'll take the opposite side of that argument. I believe the executives thought there had to be some kind of alternative to paying a newly graduated PhD, $100K plus a $15k sign-on bonus, to start. How long do you think US companies remain globally competitive with pay structured like that? From Fatty: "I wish that was the reality. But the truth was that the bubble economy created lots of useless technologies/services so that any body who knew how to type could easily get a $75k job.? Amen to that.

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (8050)	1/12/2003 3:06:01 PM
From: Conan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

Lizzie, Another interesting H1-B tidbit from my old job: After about 4 months I started noticing that most of our clerical staff were married to the H1-B people who worked at the company. It turned out that most of these spouses were also working for free! And this is a violation of the H1-B program rules! When the company knew someone from the government might come by to check the company on compliance they would send the spouse/clerical workers home. I can only imagine that when the company was recruiting people to bring over that potential employees were made to understand that their families would be required to provide this type of assistance to the company as a quid pro quo for sponsoring them to come to the land of wide screen TVs and take out food. By the way, the founder and owner of the company was from the same country of origin as the H1-B people. Conan