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To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (8067)	1/12/2003 3:37:14 PM
From: get shorty	Respond to of 306849

Management salaries are another can of worms. "How much do you think a newly graduated PhD (assume from a top school) is worth? How many PhD's are we graduating from the ivy league anyway? Not many. Don't you think a salary close to 100K is reasonable given the salaries paid to executives, union labor, pilots, etc.? My personal experience is with institutions noted for their engineering programs, i.e, Stanford, UC Berkeley, MIT, etc. vs. ivy league schools. "How many PhD's are we graduating from the ivy league anyway? Not many." Yeah, this is my point. So as a hiring manager, do you participate in a bidding war for the few candidates that do exist, or do you look for a less expensive labor pool? "BTW back to the PhD for 100K- I hope you don't think thats what we were getting from the H1-B program... an equivalent to a ivy league PhD. The offshore people who had what it takes to get an ivy league PhD would have simply applied for one at one of the schools here. You do realize that many, perhaps even a majority, of newly graduated PhD students that ultimately were hired through the H1B program, were in fact educated at US universities? That is, they were non-citizens that attended and graduated our engineering schools. As I mentioned earlier, the H1B program, like any other govt. administered program, was/is vulnerable to abuses. I've noticed that most participants in this conversation have focused on the glut of IT workers. Even more specifically, the use of H1B contractors to fill IT positions. Perhaps that's where the biggest abuses took place?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (8067)	1/12/2003 5:30:44 PM
From: Moominoid	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 306849

BTW back to the PhD for 100K- I hope you don't think thats what we were getting from the H1-B program... an equivalent to a ivy league PhD. The offshore people who had what it takes to get an ivy league PhD would have simply applied for one at one of the schools here. A degree from somewhere in bangalore is not the same as someone from Princeton. Lizzie Yeah people like me with a US PhD have to get a job under H1-B (and don't necessarily get paid $100,000 or less than US citizens in the same job as variously claimed on this thread. Oh and I am an economics professor at a private university). Getting a Green Card takes years. In the meantime you sign on under an H1-B. The problem is that the guys reviewing applications at INS are probably underqualified and haven't got a clue about the difference between US and foreign qualifications etc.