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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: stockman_scott who wrote (65721)	1/13/2003 12:23:59 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

I am in favor of intelligently supporting Israel and helping to insure peace throughout the Middle East...Yet, I feel we have given Israel to much aid and often in an UNconditional way -- they have become like a teenager that is tough to handle --> maybe its time for some 'tough love' from The U.S. in order to help Israel become more accountable to the U.S. taxpayers and to its neighbors It is not anti-Semitic to think so, scott. But Brigadier-General or not, that article was anti-Semitic crap. Singling out Israel as a state that has uniquely committed crimes "that no other country would get away with", and to talk about how Israel is immune from criticism (!), is simply ludicrous, especially when you compare the human rights record of Israel against other US allies such as Egypt or Pakistan, not to mention Syria or Iraq. Then the author hit all the Arab anti-Semitic tropes in a slightly subtler fashion: The Zionist conspiracy controlling Washington. The fiendishly clever Mossad permitting if not actually instigating terror attacks. The Israelis who skipped work on Sept 11th. The Liberty. And of course a recitation of all available Israeli human rights abuses. The current approach to peace in The Middle East has not worked. No denying that. More pressure needs to be applied to The Palestian side as well. Yet, The U.S. has the most leverage with Israel and so far we have failed to use it. The trouble with this logic is that the US has turned out to have NO influence on the Palestinian side, zippo. Arafat answers to others, including at bottom, himself, who want to keep the conflict going 'til victory. Not even the US can solve a conflict by pressuring one side alone, unless the US is willing to crush that side. That, the US is plainly not willing to do, why should it? Israel is an ally and a reliable client state; what can we expect from the Palestinians?

To: stockman_scott who wrote (65721)	1/13/2003 7:13:34 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I am in favor of intelligently supporting Israel and helping to insure peace throughout the Middle East... Thank you for posting your opinion instead of just another article, Scott.. Any ideas as to the appropriate amount of pressure the US is supposed to place upon Israel in order to get to a peace treaty?? What terms should Israel have imposed upon them? And what will be the final "footprint" on the middle east?? A democratic Israel and non-democratic Palestine? Peace between Palestinians and Israelis but no peace with other Arab states?? Do we have any standards as to exactly what kind of Palestinian state we permit to come into being? I hope I don't come across as sarcastic Scott.. because I'm not trying to. I'm just refreshed to see you post something in your own hand (and mind), and now hope that you will help understand more about your point of view. Hawk

To: stockman_scott who wrote (65721)	1/14/2003 6:17:54 AM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Here you're speaking English I am in favor of intelligently supporting Israel and helping to insure peace throughout the Middle East... But the rest of the time, you speak Arabic and indiscriminantly post every article you can find provided it casts the USA or Israel in an unfavorable light, no matter if it's from one of those Israel bashing sites with innocent sounding names (like washington-report.org, LOL ) You and Nadine are entitled to your opinion BUT I think multiple perspectives should be considered...What I posted was an article by a retired U.S. Army Brigadier-General. I wouldn't have a complaint if you posted pertinent criticisms or commentary of your own about events. I think Israel even has acted in a moderate way compared to what most countries would do if confronted with the terrorism they endure, but few other countries ever receive much more than lukewarm criticism, as if a time out is needed from systematically condemning Israel. Everyone knows by now that the essential conditions for any normalized relations between Israel and the Palestinians is security in their lives for Israelis and better living conditions for Palestinians. Thus far no "peace process" has ever really addressed these issues directly or honestly, not Oslo, not Camp David, none whatsoever.