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To: elmatador who wrote (27467)	1/14/2003 5:13:00 AM
From: LLCF	Respond to of 74559

<I can't exist independent of this thoughts which articulate whom I am. > Thoughts come from your lifes experience... they can be seen for this as opposed to the truth if watched. Thoughts arise via perceived relevance at the time... since one can go quite a while without thought and still 'be', and since thoughts can be totally independant of who one 'is'.... thoughts are much more than this... and in fact are only related to who one is. <If you are not worried you don't know what is going on. (Much appropriated for the coming Kaboom!) If your appraisal of reality is not converted -attenuated- by your brain, your thoughts are based on reality. And if reality threatens you, you rather better worry.> Actually, if reality calls for action, action can be taken in the moment... then peace. Worry [or anxiety] is the gap between what is and what one wishes were the case. So worry only comes in when action has not yet been taken to rectify the moment [for the coming Kaboom]. If reality threatens, you act, not worry. Worry is not a necessary state, one needs not be a 'worrysome' person... no matter what their [the] situation. If a comet were going to destroy the earth tomorrow, some people would worry more than others... some not at all. <<<What is brain, etc. vs the person of course can be debated. BUT, one can certainly 'see' before thoughts, labels and judgements come in [usually almost immediately]. Children of course don't have dialogue going on in their heads about what they are seeing like [some] adults do.>> <<That is at instant zero. Next millisecond your brain start making associations based on what has been stored there.>> First, you can note that the point is proven by Children... But also you need to see what I wrote: << BUT, one can certainly 'see' before thoughts, labels and judgements come in [usually almost immediately]. >> I'm talking about 'thought'... dialogue going on in the head... usually in the form of speech or pictures [can you think in different lauguages?]. Try taking a walk in the morning with a quiet mind vs letting your mind dictate. It is self evident that many different experiences can be had from the same walk depending on what your mind is doing. Each time one sees an XYZ tree, the experience can be totally different. Therefore it can be seen that "your brain making associations" is not exlusively some automatic uncontrollable thing based on the past ['that's the tree I fell out of @ age 8!]. In fact, what I'm talking about [thought] needn't be there are at all. So... no, that is NOT instant zero... it is [related to] Zen. Western psychology and counciling is based on the fact that "based on what's in there" can be[come] deemed irrelevant and no longer pop up in ones head. <Can comment. I have no idea what is behind Zen.> Now you know. DAK