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Politics : Long Live The Death Penalty! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: louisebaltimore who wrote (389)	1/16/2003 2:49:39 PM
From: Fangorn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 828

Louise, re >Frozen baboons returned to life SCIENTISTS have unlocked the secret of suspended animation by successfully reviving baboons hours after their bodies were packed into crates of ice.< So, the baboons were NOT frozen, contrary to the headline. They had their blood replaced by "Hextend" and were packed in ice for several hours. Their hearts didn't stop, their tissue was not frozen. >The breakthrough, which holds huge implications for the battle against disease and ageing, will allow humans to preserve their ice-cold bodies in suspended animation and wake up years later in the same physical condition. < This "breakthrough" will certainly not "allow humans to preserve their ice-cold bodies in suspended animation and wake up years later in the same physical condition." It is a couple of orders of magnitude between slowing metabolism by packing in ice for a few hours and freezing for years and reviving "in the same physical condition". This claim is an incredible overstatement of what these guys have actually done. re >The principal barrier, however, is popular opinion. "It is like the public attitude to early organ transplants," said Sternberg. "Although everyone will love us when we announce we have reversibly frozen a human being, at the moment this area is not considered socially acceptable. < No Doctor Sternberg, the problem is not social acceptability. The problem is that freezing does irreparable damage to the cells i. e. the formation of ice crystals rupture the cell membranes. Ruptured cells usually die immediately. We can argue about whether they remain alive till thawed and then die. Actual suspended animation is at best a few decades in the future and offers no help in solving the problem of what to do with murderous thugs now or for the foreseeable future. BTW if such a system did work how long would you keep a murderer frozen? 30 years? 100 years? in perpetuity? To a revived thug it would probably seem like he just went to sleep yesterday, is this punishment? If you never revive him how would that differ from execution?

To: louisebaltimore who wrote (389)	1/24/2003 4:09:24 AM
From: Nancy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 828

Hi: You might want to read the following to get a more complete picture on the subject of suspended animation using Hextend: Click here for many potential info sources: www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=SCIENTISTS+have+unlocked+the+secret+of+suspended+animation+by+successfully I selected the following because it was more enlightening: www.educa.com/transcedo/a_pers2.htm << This link has the same text as louisebaltimore supplied, except it has the following address at the end of the article: >> BioTime,Inc 935 Pardee Street Berkeley, CA 94710-0000 Phone 510.845.9535 << After the address, this article shows the following comments: >> -------------------------------------------------------- Some reactions to this press-release that appeared in mailing-lists : To CryoNet cryonet.org From Steve Bridge <72320.1642@compuserve.com> January 5, 1998 Subject: BioTime Experiments Thanks for posting this Randy. It was a combination of truth, fantasy, and lies, very common especially in British publications. The title of the article alone is wrong: >Frozen baboons returned to life They weren't "dead" and they weren't "frozen." Paul Segal and and Hal Sternberg of BioTime biotimeinc.com spoke about these experiments at the Alcor Conference alcor.org in February, 1997. These experiments were in blood washout and blood thining with Hextend at low -- but not freezing -- temperatures. BioTime has indeed extended these techniques to baboons in anticipation of human experiments. The clinical use of these techniques and chemicals will be to prolong surgical times, provide blood substitutes at times of low blood supply or for people whose religion prevents them from receiving blood transfusions. >>SCIENTISTS have unlocked the secret of suspended animation by >>successfully reviving baboons hours after their bodies were packed into >>crates of ice. >Yes, but at what temp? This has already been done, hasn't it? Yes. This is not what WE would call "suspended animation," but the press routinely uses that term for anything similar. >>The breakthrough, which holds huge implications for the battle against >>disease and ageing, will allow humans to preserve their ice-cold bodies >>in suspended animation and wake up years later in the same physical >>condition. Biotimes scientists are certainly interested in suspended animation, but this "breakthrough" is a long way from suspended animation. This is just sloppy, sensationalistic reporting. >>Sternberg and his colleagues expect to use their new techniques to put >>themselves into long-term hibernation while they await the development >>of life-extending techniques to cure and prevent cancer, heart failure >>and Alzheimer's disease. No, I don't think Hal and Paul are ready to head off into hibernation. The writer has accidentally or purposely confused this with cryonics. >>Doctors believe the technique can immediately be used in complex >>surgery, where best results can be obtained by cooling the body to a >>level which would otherwise cause brain damage. This is true and is what is really going on. Steve Bridge Chairman of the Board Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Donaldson Subject: Re: CryoNet #8965 - #8966 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 I know BioTime biotimeinc.com and its researchers quite well. The news article, whether by deliberate action of someone involved or not, has confused several issues. Hextend is a good solution for taking medical patients down to low temperatures just above 0 C. They have tested Hextend on baboons. However, the idea of taking baboons down to liquid nitrogen temperatures, or any temperatures low enough for storage for more than 12 hours, is presently a dream only. At a Conference just in December 1997, Paul Segal described experiments attempting to use Hextend and cryoprotectants to take guinea pigs down low enough to freeze. They were not able to revive the guinea pigs to a healthy state: all came back with widespread brain, heart, and organ damage, and did not survive for very long. I do not wish to denigrate Hextend. It may prove to be very useful for medical purposes, greatly extending the time in which an operation may be done on the brain or the heart. Taking the temperature down to the required level WITHOUT removing the blood has proven to be fatal too often --- and that required level is still above freezing. Hextend may even help in reviving people after the so-called "five minute limit": other research, not done by Biotime, suggests that lowering the temperature has lots of unexpected favorable effects and looks like it really will allow revivals to full consciousness if circulation and breathing have stopped at normal temperature for as long as 15 minutes. But Biotime is still nowhere near suspended animation as seen in science fiction or cryonics. Best and long long life, Thomas Donaldson Last updated : 05-01-98 ================================================= More links concerning the Biotime company and Hextend can be found by clicking here: www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Biotime+Hextend