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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (158313)	1/17/2003 7:21:14 PM
From: Jim McMannis	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1587382

RE:"Bias has existed against Asians in the past" Although, I sure there was bias against Asians I never really saw much of it. Even going back 30 years. Certainly not in California when I was going to college there. All those that I knew or hung around with were most intelligent and well spoken. I guess the main stereotype is or was that if you were of Asian extraction you were automatically good a math and hard science. Not a bad stereotype if you have to have one. Little did people know it all comes from early upbringing and perhaps culture. As for Shaqs' making fun of Yao Ming...I'm sure he was just joking. But that doesn't matter does it? Because you and I couldn't get away with making the same fun of Shaq...no? BTW, I recently started to study Mandarin. This has lead me to a better understanding of just why Chinese is so different to western speakers. The inflection of the highs and lows in words is incredible. But that's just the way it is. No one should get insulted by that. The press and certain groups sure like to get mileage out of it though. Really kind of silly.

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (158313)	1/17/2003 8:15:48 PM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1587382

The goal is to end racial discrimination, but the mechanism only promotes a different form of discrimination, and the original problem gets worse. How so? The goal remains fixed I presume, more or less proportional representation. The mechanism of remedy would of necessity apply a correction, so it cannot be neutral. How does the problem get worse? It gets close enough to the goal of proportionality that the remedy can be discontinued. No remedy will make the problem continue or get worse. TP

To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (158313)	1/18/2003 4:09:17 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1587382

TP, <A fake solution is one which perports to make a change but has no mechanism to do so.> Exactly what affirmative action is. The goal is to end racial discrimination, but the mechanism only promotes a different form of discrimination, and the original problem gets worse. That makes no sense. How can making minorities more equal to the dominate majority makes things [eco. conditions] worse for those same minorities. <I also disagree with your reasoning of the excluded middle which implies that there are only two alternatives in my view> Here is what you said, "If one assumes that bias existed in the past, there is no way to come to a neutral postion without applying a counter-bias for a while." Bias has existed against Asians in the past, yet you don't see Asians needing or receiving any sort of affirmative action, do you? I think not all minorities were treated in the same way when they first came to this country. While each experience has been different, those differences are greater for some minorities than others. First of all, there was only a relatively brief period in this country's history where Asians were treated like indentured servants, and I don't recall that they were ever slaves. That is a huge, huge difference from blacks. Secondly, European minorities, Latinos and Asians were much more closely tied to their national origins than blacks.......they came to this country mostly voluntarily and their national identities were much stronger. Meanwhile, blacks were kidnaped against their will, placed in slavery and virtually had no relations with their homeland. Thirdly, a hundred years of black enslavement was followed by another hundred years of indentured servitude and extreme discrimination. Other groups experienced discrimination but never to the degree and length of blacks. Fourthly, unlike other minorities, blacks for years had little family structure. Initially kidnapped, they were not permitted a family structure as slaves and even when they became indentured servants, fostering a true family life was problematical, and most were considered a family member of the white family for whom they worked.....something akin to a favored dog. Fifthly, some minorities, particularly Asians, have/had an uncanny ability to ape the dominant culture and have adaptded much more quickly to the predominate culture than other minorities. In LA, I would be amazed by first generation Asian teenagers who barely spoke English but dressed and acted like their whitist of white counterparts. I am unclear why Asians have that ability to adapt quickly.....maybe its in 'their genes'.....genetic predisposition or something innately cultural. Another example of that unusual talent is postwar Japan which modeled much of their industrial infrastructure after us, and then proceeded to make it better and beat us at our own game until the 90s. Its clear that what helps is the Asian emphasis on education but I think its more than that. In any case, I do not thing its fair to judge one minority by the behaviors and progress of another......like I said earlier, not all minorities have had 'equal' experiences in this country since their arrival. ted