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To: Jim McMannis who wrote (8208)	1/18/2003 5:39:12 PM
From: MSI	Respond to of 306849

That's the problem -- even tho' you can always shield yourself with "don't ask don't tell" by hiring contractors, who do the illegal hiring. It's one more thing that increases "moral hazard", and increases the range of citizen behavior that can be termed "illegal" -- which makes gov't officials quite happy. Gov't officials like it if every citizen can be in technical violation of some law, since it relieves gov't of need to observe bothersome and expensive Constitutional issues. Much more cost-effective, if everyone is in technical violation, you can pull them over, enter buildings, examine records, etc., w/o much less to-do. Even better, the fear-factor keeps people from political participation, and kills the habit of questioning their policy-makers. It's bad for democracy. Better to improve border enforcement, let everyone know and be consistent, intead of waiting for another "amnesty". It's not necessary to have draconian search-and-siezure laws, just add resources to the borders, announce there will be no amnesty, and encourage everyone, employers and immigrants both, to observe the laws and find ways to make that work. We're not the largest economy in the world due to stupidity, and certainly not due to illegal immigration. If it were me, I'd love to emmigrate to this country if I were elsewhere, even if it meant I had to follow the rules. I don't see the problem. If I can't figure it out, I don't belong here, except as someone's charity. The only argument you hear is the economic one, and no one is even taking the time to carefully look at the alternative, instead assuming all is lost if we don't allow massive illegal immigration. It'll always be easier to hire the illegal for some tasks, but better border enforcement will make fewer such available as well as increase national security.

To: Jim McMannis who wrote (8208)	1/18/2003 6:52:17 PM
From: GraceZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

No, they all have green cards, yet as I pointed out earlier there's no way for the employer to know if the documents were obtained legally.

To: Jim McMannis who wrote (8208)	1/19/2003 11:56:11 AM
From: John Chen	Respond to of 306849

Jim,re:"hiring illegals and ..bragging about it". Why not? if I were 'Grace', I would. MONEY is always LEGAL TENDER. I bet it's legal to rob when you have shortage of money if you can find loophole. There is a news on: 'hit and run' (the hit killed 2 persons). Then there is an expert: "it's not what you see when I person run after such act...... it's one of 2 normal response .........)". Hmm, now the court (jury) has to decide: "maybe it's OK to hit and run, we need more study on this".