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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 3:39:34 AM
From: kumar	Respond to of 281500

hey UW, good to see u've been lurking. Not good that u're not participating. Maybe the trend will revese eventually.

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 3:47:33 AM
From: KLP	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

OT-and yet, is it? Thank you for saying that unclewest. I believe that most Americans know someplace in their soul that what you said is the truth. Some will not. So be it. I had occasion to use this prayer in a program I presented not long ago...it is as true today as it was then. For all Americans, and the young men and women who risk their lives to help us keep our way of life for ourselves, our children, and for the future generations: This prayer, attributed to George Washington, is said to have been written by him on Christmas at Valley Forge 1777 , as reprinted in the Editorial Pages of the Richmond Times Dispatch December 21, 2000. Almighty God, Father of All Men: To Thee we raise thankful hearts for deliverance from forces of evil.. Deliver us also, we beseech Thee, from the greater danger of ourselves, Have mercy upon us and forgive us for our part in the present desolation of the world. Awake us each time to a sense of our responsibility in saving the world from ruin. Open our minds and eyes and hearts to the desperate plight of millions. Arouse us from indifference into action. Let none of us fail to give his utmost in sympathy, understanding, thought, and effort. Fulfill in us and through us Thy glorious intention: that Thy peace, Thy love, and Thy justice may enter into the regeneration of the world.

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 4:02:52 AM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

What did Dubya do in the war, daddy? By LINDA MCQUAIG Nov. 17, 2002. 01:00 AM thestar.com It's often said that people just won't go into politics any more because of the intense media scrutiny one faces for even the smallest indiscretion in one's past. In fact, the media are temperamental beasts; fierce one day, gentle as lambs the next. Certainly the media showed its soft side last week. As George W. Bush piously observed Veterans Day, media pundits somehow restrained themselves from pointing to the irony that the U.S. Commander-in-Chief, who's sometimes referred to as a "former fighter pilot," has an embarrassing military past. His records show that for months at a time during the Vietnam War, Bush could be classified as, at best, "absent without leave" (AWOL) or, at worst, as an army deserter. This would be equivalent to the media withholding comment as former U.S. President Bill Clinton publicly espoused the virtues of marital fidelity. Indeed, one hardly needs to wait for Veterans' Day to note the irony in Bush's military fervour. The man can scarcely contain his enthusiasm for war — or at least for others going to war. As he inches closer each day to sending tens of thousands of American soldiers into Iraq (to be followed likely by hundreds of Canadian soldiers), any day would be appropriate for the media to satisfy its allegedly insatiable appetite for dirt on the rich and powerful by reporting the president's own military past. The legwork has already been done by the Boston Globe, which dug up Bush's military records and interviewed his former military commanders. While the paper published its dramatic findings during the presidential campaign of 2000, the rest of the media all but ignored the story and continue to do so, even as Bush has turned himself into arguably the most hawkish president in U.S. history. It's not that the media are not hard on military laggards. While there were only 49 media stories about Bush's military past during his presidential campaign, there were a whopping 13,641 media reports on Clinton's Vietnam-era draft dodging during his first presidential race, according to former Clinton aide Paul Begala. Begala made the observation on a media panel at a labour conference shortly after Bush's election. Other panelists, including journalists from major TV networks and Time magazine, agreed that Bush had had a much gentler ride, but attributed it to the media's alleged exhaustion after all the Clinton-era scandals. Of course, it's possible Bush was so morally repelled by the U.S. slaughter in Vietnam that he just couldn't bring himself to participate. But probably not. Here's what we know. Upon graduating from Yale, Bush applied for a position in the Texas National Guard, a coveted spot that required only part-time military duties at home, far from the battlefields of Vietnam. Bush was catapulted to the front of 500 other applicants after a friend of his father, then a wealthy Houston congressman, phoned the Speaker of the Texas House, according to the Boston Globe. After completing training as a pilot, George W. Bush requested and immediately received a transfer to an Alabama National Guard unit in May, 1972. But Bush never showed up for duty there, according to the Alabama unit's commander and the commander's assistant, who were interviewed by the Boston Globe. Military records show that Bush's two commanding officers back in Texas reported George W. did not show up for duty there either for a year, and that they believed he had been transferred to Alabama. Meanwhile, when Bush failed to take his required annual medical exam in August, 1972, his pilot status was removed. It should be noted that reporting for military duty is not something that's optional, particularly during a war. Those caught shirking National Guard duties were usually punished by being drafted into the real army — the one that landed you in Vietman, where some 350 American soldiers were killed each week. But, despite more than a year absent from duty, nothing happened to the well-connected George W. Bush. Favouritism is a sore point among those who actually went to war, including U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. As Powell wrote in his autobiography: "I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed ... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units ... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal ..." You've got to marvel at Powell's anger management skills. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linda McQuaig is a Toronto-based author and political commentator who appears every Sunday.

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 4:16:36 AM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

unclewest: I would feel MUCH BETTER if we had a president who was a war hero who had actually spent some time out in the trenches on the battlefield... Message 18473481 The appreciation for what war is really like is important...I think folks like Kerry, Hagel, and Powell would be more thoughtful than Bush and would NOT rush to pull the trigger to go to war...I heard Colonel Hackworth the other night on one of the CNBC programs and he thinks Bush is pushing too hard to go war...he said that gulf war veterans from 10 years ago have NOT been taken care of properly...he also feels that there may be a way to deal with Saddam without going to war -- better for our troops and better for the region. I don't think many folks can question Colonel Hackworth's patriotism and credibility...He feels 'the civilian warHawks in the current Administration' have no idea about what war is really like. I think this country would be much better off IF we had a real war hero as president...IMO, there is a reasonable chance that Senator John Kerry may be our next president...stay tuned. -s2

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 5:41:24 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<GWB flew fighter jets. Like all military service, that takes a level of fortitude the protected have never understood.... Demeaning the service of any of those who served is an outrage.> Come on Uncle West, they aren't all heroes. For example, Tim McVeigh laid down his life for what he believed in, so I guess that's heroism which should not be demeaned. Lt William Calley helped rid the world of Vietnamese children. I wonder if they are the only military service people who not everyone would admire. Let's face it, King George II was a rich kid who got out of dangerous service thanks to Dad. Flying fighters is no doubt a quick adrenaline boost, but without anyone actually shooting at you, it's not really dangerous, though F111s crashed with monotonous regularity and ejection seat escape would not be as relaxing as being a couch potato. But few have actually experienced that. It's a bit like the firemen at the Twin Towers. They weren't really all heroes. Just firemen. Some of them were looters. These days, the word hero is greatly devalued - so much so that homosexuals qualify themselves as heroes merely because of their confused sexual identity. Not that they are confused about what they feel, just that nature has gone awry and will NOT be successful in reproduction in their instance. Sure, the great bulk of military people are no doubt loyal people of good character who are doing a good job. But let's not award them all the Victoria Cross before they've actually done anything. We all have jobs to do to keep our civilized world on the straight and narrow, which is all too wobbly at times. We are not all heroes for doing our jobs. That includes military people. Mqurice

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 8:35:30 AM
From: oexer	Respond to of 281500

Thank you.

To: unclewest who wrote (67616)	1/22/2003 11:59:02 AM
From: Karen Lawrence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I don't ever demean those who served honorably, which includes my father (Army Air Corp) and my late husband (Air Force), my current fiance (Air Force pilot) and numerous friends. Bush Sr was a war hero, GW is something else. "Military records show that Bush's two commanding officers back in Texas reported George W. did not show up for duty there either for a year, and that they believed he had been transferred to Alabama. Meanwhile, when Bush failed to take his required annual medical exam in August, 1972, his pilot status was removed. It should be noted that reporting for military duty is not something that's optional, particularly during a war. Those caught shirking National Guard duties were usually punished by being drafted into the real army — the one that landed you in Vietman, where some 350 American soldiers were killed each week. But, despite more than a year absent from duty, nothing happened to the well-connected George W. Bush." So tell us, what combat fighting did Bush do in the Vietnam war? Huh. No I don't insult those who have defended and are defending America. Not enough has been done for them by way of showing how much we appreciate what they have done to protect and serve our great country. I'm not going to make guesses about where you were or what you did during the Vietnam war. So, tell us. And BTW God bless your sibling's children who so valiantly serve.