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To: altair19 who wrote (22076)	1/27/2003 11:31:20 AM
From: abuelita	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

phuck you!

To: altair19 who wrote (22076)	1/28/2003 12:59:11 AM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

Why some vets oppose war Lessons of Vietnam are not being applied BY MARK MCVAY The Detroit Free Press January 27, 2003 Skip Sullins of Charleston, S.C., spent most of Saturday, Jan. 18, walking through the crowd of demonstrators who had gathered in Washington, D.C., that day to protest against U.S. plans to wage war against Iraq. The shrapnel embedded deeply in his left leg didn't bother him too much, despite the unusually bitter cold. A forward observer and mortar man for the 3rd Marine Division in 1968, Skip was engaging the North Vietnamese Army outside of DaNang when he felt the hot metal chards rip into his flesh. As he marched Saturday with about 200 other veterans from World II, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm, he wore his purple heart and other combat ribbons proudly. Military veterans, as a group, have always been reluctant to voice opposition to the commander in chief, especially when he is summoning a fresh, inexperienced group of fighting men and women to don their battlefield dress. But chinks are beginning to appear in the armor of this normally supportive group. In the United States today, the largest group of veterans by far are Vietnam veterans. According to current figures, nearly one-third of the nation's 24 million veterans are Vietnam-era. But one doesn't often see presidents, vice presidents or other politicians bent on war addressing that audience. Perhaps that is because Vietnam veterans likely recall what it was like to have fought in a war where crucial decisions were made and defended with implacable logic. Then Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, sounding much like the current secretary, ridiculed any criticism of the war as unpatriotic and maintained a steadfast support for his objectives despite substantial popular and political opposition. It wasn't until 20 years after a humiliating exit from Saigon that McNamara admitted the whole thing was a mistake. Most veterans are proud people. They are proud of their service to their country. They are patriotic. They are quiet heroes -- honorable men and women who often sacrificed and suffered immeasurably, in many cases, to fight for this nation. They are reluctant, most of them, to discuss their combat experiences. But there is a quality that clearly separates the Vietnam veteran from the veterans of World War II and Korea. It is defined by America's lack of ability to define the crises, identify the solutions, and ultimately convince people of the necessity of sending Americans into a foreign land to die for those reasons -- the very qualities that are absent from today's debate on Iraq. I don't believe for a minute that 8 million Vietnam veterans, or any group of veterans for that matter, nod in unison for calls to war when it comes to the lives of their children and grandchildren. Who among us are more qualified to know and understand the horrors of war and the lifelong effect it has on both the military and civilian combatant? Who better to speak to the innocent bloodshed and the inexcusable casualties? Those with no real experience might simply dismiss the slaughter of innocents as collateral damage. Tell that to the eyewitness. The experience, intuition and understanding of the combat veteran is a precious resource and should never be taken for granted, especially by those who never dared put their own lives on the line in battle. They should demand that President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz not only explain their own curious reluctance to walk the walk, but they should insist that this president produce clear and irrefutable evidence of the need to send tens of thousands of young men and women to do what they would not. "I support the warriors," Skip Sullins told me as he marched along the National Mall, "just not the war." _______________________________________________________ MARK McVAY is a teacher and Vietnam veteran living in Macomb County. freep.com