SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: stockman_scott who wrote (69450)1/28/2003 10:49:41 AM
From: michael97123  Respond to of 281500
 
"That, surely, should have been one lesson from September 11. One of Osama bin Laden’s biggest gripes was that U.S. troops were stationed on Saudi soil. Had it not been for the Gulf War of 1991, we wouldn’t have had a toehold for our troops in Saudi Arabia and, in all likelihood, those troops would not have been there in 2001. In that case, we might not be mourning 3,000 dead people this coming September"

scott,
There would be no saudi soil if there had been no gulf war. Perhaps the unintended outcome then would be that saddam and bin laden would have fought for control of the islamic world. There are always unintended outcomes. I just find it unacceptable that you folks on the left would just allow one nation state to conquer another in todays world. That really is what the Gulf War was all about. The US could have cut an oil deal with iraq. Kuwait is tiny with tiny populattion but they were a UN member. And you would have allowed them to be erased from the map. I know, I know the map was prepared by colonialists and anyway we could have forced saddam out with sanctions. Blah blah blah. mike
PS Blaming the 3000 WTC deaths indirectly on the Gulf War and our troops on saudi soil is disgusting to me. I know it sounds worse to me than you intended it to be but please consider what you say, particularly to one who was under fire that day.



To: stockman_scott who wrote (69450)1/28/2003 10:53:49 AM
From: bacchus_ii  Respond to of 281500
 
Also this one is less sophisticated but as rational as the other though. Short and sweet.

townhall.com

Doug Bandow (archive)
(printer-friendly version)

January 28, 2003

Kabuki theater, Iraq-style

WASHINGTON - The U.N. arms inspectors in Iraq have suddenly taken front stage. But the process is a sideshow. The real issue is whether an invasion is necessary to protect America.

The discovery of a dozen empty chemical warheads set off an international debate. Inspectors recently traveled to Baghdad to demand better cooperation.

"Some progress" was made, said Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

While the inspectors are using the threat of war to win improved access, the Bush administration views inspections as an impediment to be overcome in developing its pretext for war.

Before inspections even started, John R. Bolton, undersecretary for arms control and international security, declared: "Our policy ... insists on regime change in Baghdad and that policy will not be altered whether inspectors go in or not."

In fact, no serious person believes that Iraq has genuinely disarmed in response to the United Nations. Thus, the inspections don't matter. The question is: Is war the only way to deal with Baghdad?

The answer is no. Saddam Hussein is not the world's only brutal dictator.

Nor is Iraq the only nation to have threatened its neighbors. Hussein is a cautious predator, not a megalomaniac. For years he has battled Shiite and Kurdish separatists. In this he is no different than neighboring Turkey, which destroyed 3,000 villages and displaced as many as 2 million people before defeating that nation's Kurdish insurgency.

In 1980, Hussein attacked Iran, which had long challenged Iraq. America backed Hussein, since it feared Iran more. Baghdad invaded Kuwait in 1990 in the mistaken belief that Washington would acquiesce. After all, U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie told Hussein that the first Bush administration had "no opinion" in his border dispute.

Since then, Hussein has done nothing. Deterrence works equally well against the use of weapons of mass destruction. Hussein employed chemical weapons against the Kurds and Iranians, but neither had a means to retaliate.

In contrast, he would face nuclear obliteration by the United States.

Indeed, deterrence dissuaded Hussein from using biological or chemical agents during the Gulf War even as bombs were raining down upon him.

Deterrence will work in the future, unless the administration invades to force regime change. Then Hussein has no reason not to unleash whatever weapons that he has on U.S. troops, Israeli civilians and America's Arab allies. Sept. 11 raised the issue of terrorism, but Bush administration hawks advocated war with Iraq long before then.

Were there serious evidence linking Hussein to al-Qaeda - secular dictators and religious fanatics rarely mix - President George W. Bush would have made the case.

In the future, Hussein is unlikely to cooperate with such groups, risking devastating retaliation if such ties were ever discovered. In the aftermath of another terrorist attack, Baghdad is the first place Washington would look.

War also creates a far greater risk of proliferation to terrorist groups. The ambassador of a friendly nation privately worries: As his regime implodes, Hussein may disperse a couple of dozen canisters of anthrax to loyal military and intelligence officers, telling them to do as much damage as possible. Or simply hand them over to al-Qaeda agents directly. There are other consequences of war. Attacking Iraq is sure to inflame Islamic hatred of the United States, offering yet another grievance for recruiting terrorists.

Moreover, conflict could destabilize fragile friendly regimes, such as that of Pakistan's Pervez Musharraf. Imagine a nuclear-armed fundamentalist Islamic government in Islamabad. Further, war will divert attention and resources from the battle against al-Qaeda. Terrorist bombs are going off around the world, while American soldiers are being shot even in Kuwait, America's closest Gulf ally.

Fighting continues to rage in the hills of Afghanistan, where U.S. soldiers are being ambushed by forces who escape into Pakistan. The most recent attacker was a Pakistani border guard.

Yet Islamabad plays both sides of the street, offering cooperation when pressed by Washington, but avoiding confrontation with Islamic radicals when possible. A U.S. attack on Iraq would reduce America's leverage to demand help and Pakistan's incentive to accede to such requests. Relations with other nations necessary to battle international terrorist networks - Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia - would be similarly strained.

Then there's the aftermath. American troops continue to occupy the artificial state of Bosnia six years after President Bill Clinton promised that they would be home. Dealing with independent Kurds, hostile Shiites, tribal leaders, Baathist elements, and returning emigres while juggling demands from Iran and Turkey would be vastly more difficult.

"We do not think that war is inevitable," says chief U.N. arms inspector Hans Blix.

It isn't, but not because of the inspections.

War is not inevitable because George W. Bush still can say no. And he should say no, because war does not serve America's national interest.

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, a TownHall.com member group.

©2003 Copley News Service



To: stockman_scott who wrote (69450)1/28/2003 11:21:22 AM
From: paul_philp  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 

the author really examines how unintended consequences can spiral out of control.


Are you saying that we should have let Saddam have unchallenged access to Saudi Arabia? We should have turned down the Saudi's request for military assistance?

What might the unintended consequences of inaction been? Remember, after the Gulf War we found Saddam was only months away from having a nuclear weapon capability. Is is possible that Iraq controlling Saudi Arabia and armed with nukes might have been a worse situation?

Until you can own up to the unintended consequences of inaction, you have no argument.

Paul