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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: chomolungma who wrote (67448)	1/29/2003 11:07:48 AM
From: Fred Levine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

cho-- Very nice informative reply. I do think that Bush is deflecting attention from his domestic failures by his focus on Iraq. In the same way, I think Zonder is deflecting attention from the obvious, to anyone on this planet, criminal atrocities of Saddam. Trying to point out that he is not the only criminal is, of course, true. However, that defense would not hold up in many courts. I agree with you that there is a very good chance that a peaceful post-Saddam solution will occur. Perhaps Zonder, or others, will give reasons why Saddam won't comply with his inspection agreement, and why the UN doesn't mean what it says. I also agree with you that both Germany and france (I don't want to even capitalize them), have cynical political and economic agendas that I previously stated. I just got a call from a German friend who, after getting an earful, told me that Germany is tacitly cooperating. We must take a stand to create international law. People who use gas in Halbja and against the Iranians, killing over 500,000 people must be held accountable. Clearly there are others, and the same rules should apply. fred

To: chomolungma who wrote (67448)	1/29/2003 11:20:08 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

No more than other non-US companies will. Can you give any basis for this assumption? Because all I have read so far says in no unclear terms that if other countries do not go into war with Iraq on the side of the US, they will get zip in oil concessions. Take a look at the following: zmag.org Maybe you haven't noticed that there are other oil companies in the world besides US companies. Gee. Really? Are you talking about the foreign oil co's that did not contribute to the Bush campaign? I find that when the person I'm talking to resorts to insults they have lost the argument and are trying to gain a measure of self-respect. Did you feel insulted? Why? Black helicopters are what conspiracy theorists see You know that, hm? I didn't get the reference. Does that tell you anything? OPEC, for starters, controls only 40% of crude oil output. I was talking about "reserves". You may have realized they produce far below their capacity. You can rant all you want, but the facts are against you. What "facts"? Like the fact that the US turned to them for increased production during the current crisis in Venezuela? Or the fact of the March 2000 OPEC agreement to keep prices between USD 22-28 per barrel? Are you trying to say OPEC does not effect world oil prices? Because, frankly, I'd rather you say something I can refute than just throw off unclear bits and pieces. My guess is I will be plenty happy after the invasion liberates an oppressed people and grants them access to the wealth of oil that has been hijacked by a brutal dictator./I> "Invasion liberates", hmm? We'll see how much "liberation" will take place and how much "looting of oil" we will see. I will be even happier when Saddam's nuclear threat is removed from the world WHAT "nuclear threat"??? Israel has nukes, India has nukes, Pakistan has nukes, North Korea is about to have nukes. What nuclear threat from Iraq are you talking about? My guess is all the above will make you decidedly unhappy. Look, mister. I have lived most of my life in the Middle East - as a girl and then as a young woman. Trust me when I say that I care far more for the happiness of those people than you ever will. Your little story of happiness and light ("We liberate, not only US but all oil companies come in, everyone lives happily ever after") sounds nice but will not happen. We will see soon enough. No point in continuing this discussion of conflicting expectations, when the invasion will take place in a month or two. See you then.