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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: jcky who wrote (70280)1/30/2003 1:21:45 PM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
41 Nobel Laureates Sign Against a War Without International Support

by William J. Broad
New York Times
Tuesday 28 January 2003

Forty-one American Nobel laureates in science and economics issued a declaration yesterday opposing a preventive war against Iraq without wide international support. The statement, four sentences long, argues that an American attack would ultimately hurt the security and standing of the United States, even if it succeeds.

The signers, all men, include a number who at one time or another have advised the federal government or played important roles in national security. Among them are Hans A. Bethe, an architect of the atom bomb; Walter Kohn, a former adviser to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency at the Pentagon; Norman F. Ramsey, a Manhattan Project scientist who readied the Hiroshima bomb and later advised NATO; and Charles H. Townes, former research director of the Institute for Defense Analyses at the Pentagon and chairman of a federal panel that studied how to base the MX missile and its nuclear warheads.

In addition to winning Nobel prizes, 18 of the signers have received the National Medal of Science, the nation's highest science honor.

The declaration reads:

"The undersigned oppose a preventive war against Iraq without broad international support. Military operations against Iraq may indeed lead to a relatively swift victory in the short term. But war is characterized by surprise, human loss and unintended consequences. Even with a victory, we believe that the medical, economic, environmental, moral, spiritual, political and legal consequences of an American preventive attack on Iraq would undermine, not protect, U.S. security and standing in the world."

Dr. Kohn, a Nobel chemist at the University of California at Santa Barbara, organized the declaration.

"No voice was speaking against the war," he said. "So I asked, `Can I somehow make myself useful?' and had the idea of contacting my Nobel laureate friends and trying to rally them around a reasonable position."

Dr. Kohn said he eventually tried to contact all American Nobel laureates in science and economics, who are thought to number about 130. But some had died or were unreachable, he said, while others never replied. Dr. Kohn said only six respondents declined to sign the declaration.

He said the signers included Democrats and Republicans alike.

Patricia Halloran, an aide to Dr. Kohn, said that more signatures were expected in the next few days as laureates returned from foreign travels or caught up with their mail.

Occasionally, science Nobelists have banded together to speak out, usually on topics of war and peace, arms and technology. In July 2000, 50 Nobel laureates urged President Bill Clinton to reject a proposed $60 billion missile defense system, arguing that it would be wasteful and dangerous. In October 1999, 32 Nobel laureates in physics urged the Senate to approve the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, calling it central to halting the spread of nuclear arms.

The Iraq declaration is to be circulated on Capitol Hill by Senator Dianne Feinstein and Representative Lois Capps, both California Democrats.

The signers are these, with E designating economics; P, physics; C, chemistry; and M, medicine or physiology:

George A. Akerlof E

Philip W. Anderson P

Paul Berg C

Hans A. Bethe P

Nicolaas Bloembergen P

Paul D. Boyer C

Owen Chamberlain P

Leon N. Cooper P

James W. Cronin P

Robert F. Curl Jr. C

Val L. Fitch P

Robert F. Furchgott M

Sheldon L. Glashow P

Roger Guillemin M

Herbert A. Hauptman C

Alan J. Heeger C

Louis J. Ignarro M

Eric R. Kandel M

Har Gobind Khorana M

Lawrence R. Klein E

Walter Kohn C

Leon M. Lederman P

Yuan T. Lee C

William N. Lipscomb C

Daniel L. McFadden E

Franco Modigliani E

Ferid Murad M

George E. Palade M

Arno A. Penzias P

Martin L. Perl P

William D. Phillips P

Norman F. Ramsey P

Robert Schrieffer P

William F. Sharpe E

Jack Steinberger P

Joseph H. Taylor Jr. P

Charles H. Townes P

Daniel C. Tsui P

Harold E. Varmus M

Robert W. Wilson P

Ahmed H. Zewail C

truthout.org



To: jcky who wrote (70280)1/30/2003 1:37:51 PM
From: paul_philp  Respond to of 281500
 

While Pollack makes a very convincing argument that our current containment strategy is faltering and is unlikely to succeed in the long horizon, his presentation of why deterrence may be ineffective against Saddam is more circumstantial than substantive. Pollack provides a cogent rationalization for the invasion of Iraq, but he is also very candid about following through the sequence of war with a Herculean post-conflict reconstruction effort--a task the Bush administration disdains and has little success with.


I think this is all true. There is a case for attacking Iraq. There is a case for containment. Both approaches have direct risks and long term risks. How you come down on the issue depends on how you balance the threats, risks and opportunities. Reasonble people can make reasonable decisions either way and disagree about it. For example, different countries in Europe weigh all the factors and come to different conclusions.

However, it just is not possible to say that there is no case for attacking Iraq. Since there is a case for the war with Iraq, there is no case for assuming bad intentions from the Bush administration. They are not evil, they simply give some factors higher priority than others. OF course, you can always take the administrtion to task on style and tone issues, they have a unique approach that is for sure.

Paul



To: jcky who wrote (70280)1/30/2003 2:17:28 PM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
The President Still Has Not Made His Case for War

By James Klurfeld
Columnist
Newsday
January 30, 2003

newsday.com

I was riveted by President George W. Bush's State of the Union address, especially the muscular, emotional argument for going to war with Iraq. But the more I thought about it, the more I felt that good rhetoric doesn't always make for good logic.

For example, the best line of the speech was clearly when the president lowered his voice, narrowed his eyes and detailed some of the atrocities Saddam Hussein's regime had visited on Iraqi citizens: torturing children while their parents watched, using electric shock, burning with hot irons, mutilating with electric drills, cutting out tongues and rape.

"If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning," said Bush.

But, hold on, we've all known for a long time that Hussein has committed despicable acts against his citizens and enemies. The need to stamp out evil in the world has never been the basis on which nations go to war. If that were the case, we would be in a state of perpetual conflict. Nations go to war to protect their vital interests. And, in the case of democracies, only as a last resort.

Also note that Bush began that paragraph on evil by trying to counter one of the arguments that has been used against a preventive war, namely that Hussein, as bad as he is, understands limits and can be deterred.

"Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy and it is not an option," said Bush, who then went on to say how evil he really is. But he never really made the connection between Hussein's penchant for doing terrible things and his geo-political behavior.

A totally different view is offered in the current issue of Foreign Policy magazine by two very tough-minded foreign policy experts, John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt of Harvard - both leading proponents of the realist school. Their argument is that as brutal and nasty as Hussein is, he has always acted in a calculating, rational manner and that he has been and can be deterred from using weapons of mass destruction.

"The historical record shows that the United States can contain Iraq effectively - even if Saddam has nuclear weapons - just as it contained the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Regardless of whether Iraq complies with UN inspections or what the inspectors find, the campaign to wage war against Iraq rests on a flimsy foundation."

This is an important point because it goes to the heart of the Bush administration's case for starting a preventive war against Iraq: Hussein is too unpredictable, too much of a risk taker, to be allowed to have weapons of mass destruction. Mearsheimer and Walt argue that Hussein has been deterred in the past and that his behavior has been predictable and even rational.

Another point: The president said, "Today, the gravest danger in the war on terror, the gravest danger facing America and the world, is outlaw regimes that seek and possess nuclear, chemical and biological weapons."

That's the good old axis of evil, of course. And, no doubt, it's a problem. But a greater danger than terrorist organizations such as al-Qaida? States, even rogue states, know they can be attacked. They have something, really everything, to lose if they attack U.S. vital interests. That is, they are deterrable. But the wispy, mysterious, clandestine terrorists are something else.

In fact, some Mideast experts have argued that an attack on Iraq will only bolster al-Qaida's standing in the Arab world - make terrorism more likely, not less. I'm not sure I buy that, but there is some logic to the argument.

Finally, I'm confused by the president's assertion that all of a sudden there is a link between Hussein and al-Qaida. Until now, intelligence officials have cautioned against making that connection. Hussein is a secularist; bin Laden, a religious fundamentalist. It doesn't fit.

Maybe there is a sound argument for waging war against Hussein. I'll be listening to Secretary of State Colin Powell when he goes to the United Nations Wednesday.

Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.