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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: lurqer who wrote (12459)2/1/2003 6:16:01 PM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
lurqer: That's sorta like having Ken Lay and Dick Cheney be co-chairs of a corporate ethics conference...;-)



To: lurqer who wrote (12459)2/1/2003 6:41:35 PM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
ShilohCat shares some insights...

Message 18523834



To: lurqer who wrote (12459)2/2/2003 4:14:03 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
***Keeping Saddam Hussein in a Box

By JOHN J. MEARSHEIMER and STEPHEN M. WALT
Editorial
The New York Times
February 2, 2003

The United States faces a clear choice on Iraq: containment or preventive war. President Bush insists that containment has failed and we must prepare for war. In fact, war is not necessary. Containment has worked in the past and can work in the future, even when dealing with Saddam Hussein.

The case for preventive war rests on the claim that Mr. Hussein is a reckless expansionist bent on dominating the Middle East. Indeed, he is often compared to Adolf Hitler, modern history's exemplar of serial aggression. The facts, however, tell a different story.

During the 30 years that Mr. Hussein has dominated Iraq, he has initiated two wars. Iraq invaded Iran in 1980, but only after Iran's revolutionary government tried to assassinate Iraqi officials, conducted repeated border raids and tried to topple Mr. Hussein by fomenting unrest within Iraq. His decision to attack was not reckless, because Iran was isolated and widely seen as militarily weak. The war proved costly, but it ended Iran's regional ambitions and kept Mr. Hussein in power.

Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 arose from a serious dispute over oil prices and war debts and occurred only after efforts to court Mr. Hussein led the first Bush administration unwittingly to signal that Washington would not oppose an attack. Containment did not fail the first time around — it was never tried.

Thus, Mr. Hussein has gone to war when he was threatened and when he thought he had a window of opportunity. These considerations do not justify Iraq's actions, but they show that Mr. Hussein is hardly a reckless aggressor who cannot be contained. In fact, Iraq has never gone to war in the face of a clear deterrent threat.

But what about the Iraqi regime's weapons of mass destruction? Those who reject containment point to Iraq's past use of chemical weapons against the Kurds and Iran. They also warn that he will eventually get nuclear weapons. According to President Bush, a nuclear arsenal would enable Mr. Hussein to "blackmail the world." And the real nightmare is that he will give chemical, biological or nuclear weapons to Al Qaeda.

These possibilities sound alarming, but the dangers they pose do not justify war.

Mr. Hussein's use of poison gas was despicable, but it tells us nothing about what he might do against the United States or its allies. He could use chemical weapons against the Kurds and Iranians because they could not retaliate in kind. The United States, by contrast, can retaliate with overwhelming force, including weapons of mass destruction. This is why Mr. Hussein did not use chemical or biological weapons against American forces or Israel during the 1991 Persian Gulf war. Nor has he used such weapons since, even though the United States has bombed Iraq repeatedly over the past decade.

The same logic explains why Mr. Hussein cannot blackmail us. Nuclear blackmail works only if the blackmailer's threat might actually be carried out. But if the intended target can retaliate in kind, carrying out the threat causes the blackmailer's own destruction. This is why the Soviet Union, which was far stronger than Iraq and led by men of equal ruthlessness, never tried blackmailing the United States.

Oddly enough, the Bush administration seems to understand that America is not vulnerable to nuclear blackmail. For example, Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, has written that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction "will be unusable because any attempt to use them will bring national obliteration." Similarly, President Bush declared last week in his State of the Union address that the United States "would not be blackmailed" by North Korea, which administration officials believe has nuclear weapons. If Iraq's chemical, biological and nuclear arsenal is "unusable" and North Korea's weapons cannot be used for blackmail, why do the president and Ms. Rice favor war?

But isn't the possibility that the Iraqi regime would give weapons of mass destruction to Al Qaeda reason enough to topple it? No — unless the administration isn't telling us something. Advocates of preventive war have made Herculean efforts to uncover evidence of active cooperation between Iraq and Al Qaeda, and senior administration officials have put great pressure on American intelligence agencies to find convincing evidence. But these efforts have borne little fruit, and we should view the latest reports of alleged links with skepticism. No country should weave a case for war with such slender threads.

(Page 2 of 2)

Given the deep antipathy between fundamentalists like Osama bin Laden and secular rulers like Saddam Hussein, the lack of evidence linking them is not surprising. But even if American pressure brings these unlikely bedfellows together, Mr. Hussein is not going to give Al Qaeda weapons of mass destruction. He would have little to gain and everything to lose since he could never be sure that American surveillance would not detect the handoff. If it did, the United States response would be swift and devastating.

The Iraqi dictator might believe he could slip Al Qaeda dangerous weapons covertly, but he would still have to worry that we would destroy him if we merely suspected that he had aided an attack on the United States. He need not be certain we would retaliate, he merely has to think that we might.

Thus, logic and evidence suggest that Iraq can be contained, even if it possesses weapons of mass destruction. Moreover, Mr. Hussein's nuclear ambitions — the ones that concern us most — are unlikely to be realized in his lifetime, especially with inspections under way. Iraq has pursued nuclear weapons since the 1970's, but it has never produced a bomb. United Nations inspectors destroyed Iraq's nuclear program between 1991 and 1998, and Iraq has not rebuilt it. With an embargo in place and inspectors at work, Iraq is further from a nuclear capacity than at any time in recent memory. Again, why the rush to war?

War may not be necessary to deny Iraq nuclear weapons, but it is likely to spur proliferation elsewhere. The Bush administration's contrasting approaches to Iraq and North Korea send a clear signal: we negotiate with states that have nuclear weapons, but we threaten states that don't. Iran and North Korea will be even more committed to having a nuclear deterrent after watching the American military conquer Iraq. Countries like Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia will then think about following suit. Stopping the spread of nuclear weapons will be difficult in any case, but overthrowing Mr. Hussein would make it harder.

Preventive war entails other costs as well. In addition to the lives lost, toppling Saddam Hussein would cost at least $50 billion to $100 billion, at a time when our economy is sluggish and huge budget deficits are predicted for years. Because the United States would have to occupy Iraq for years, the actual cost of this war would most likely be much larger. And because most of the world thinks war is a mistake, we would get little help from other countries.

Finally, attacking Iraq would undermine the war on terrorism, diverting manpower, money and attention from the fight against Al Qaeda. Every dollar spent occupying Iraq is a dollar not spent dismantling terrorist networks abroad or improving security at home. Invasion and occupation would increase anti-Americanism in the Islamic world and help Osama bin Laden win more followers. Preventive war would also reinforce the growing perception that the United States is a bully, thereby jeopardizing the international unity necessary to defeat global terrorism.

Although the Bush administration maintains that war is necessary, there is a better option. Today, Iraq is weakened, its pursuit of nuclear weapons has been frustrated, and any regional ambitions it may once have cherished have been thwarted. We should perpetuate this state of affairs by maintaining vigilant containment, a policy the rest of the world regards as preferable and effective. Saddam Hussein needs to remain in his box — but we don't need a war to keep him there.
_________________________________________________________

John J. Mearsheimer is professor of political science at the University of Chicago. Stephen M. Walt is academic dean of Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government.

nytimes.com



To: lurqer who wrote (12459)2/2/2003 5:54:03 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
What happens when a random sample of 343 Americans talk together about Iraq?

By Adam Gordon
Web Exclusive: 1.31.03
prospect.org

PHILADELPHIA -- What happens when you take a random sample of 343 Americans -- with the same basic socioeconomic and geographical distribution as the country as a whole -- fly them to Philadelphia and have them hash out, in small group discussions over the course of three days, whether we should invade Iraq?

Two weeks ago, we found out. A decade ago, University of Texas political scientist James Fishkin invented a technique called "deliberative polling" in which researchers bring together a random sample of Americans to debate the political issues of the day. The most famous of these polls took place in 1996, when the Public Broadcasting System's MacNeil-Lehrer Productions brought together a sample of Americans to quiz presidential candidates. Other polls have focused on everything from what type of energy Texas electric utilities should buy to crime-fighting strategies in Bulgaria. The idea is to find out what the public would think about political issues if it had a chance to learn about them fully and to talk about them with others -- in other words, what democracy would look like in a perfect world.

The results are measured by posing a set of questions to participants prior to their arrival, then asking the same set of questions at the end of the event. For this poll, because the initial questions had been asked months ago and the public mood on Iraq seems to shift continually, a recent random telephone survey of non-participants in the conference provided an additional control.

The overwhelming outcome of the Philadelphia conference? Most Americans -- given the chance to hear from experts, reflect on the topic and argue with one another -- would choose a nuanced, moderate position on Iraq. And the answers they would come up with, while perhaps offending the rigid ideologies of both Bush administration hawks and anti-war zealots, actually make a lot of sense.

Eighty-seven percent of delegates called Iraq a threat, compared with 74 percent of the non-participant control group. Only 46 percent wanted the administration to shift its focus from Iraq to terrorism, compared with 57 percent of the control group. And only 14 percent of delegates agreed with the statement, "This country would be better off if we just stayed home and did not concern ourselves with problems in other areas of the world" -- compared with 37 percent of the delegates before the conference.

Those are numbers that might hearten the Bush administration -- but they are only half the story. Support for unilateral U.S. action to stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction dropped from 58 percent before the conference to 44 percent after. Before the event, only 44 percent said that the United Nations should play the lead role in resolving conflicts; after the poll, 60 percent supported that organization taking the lead role.

"There was a general shift toward the middle from both sides," Bob McInnis, an Air Force employee from the Florida panhandle, said of his experience as a poll participant. Indeed, a dominant culture of the middle was in the air throughout the weekend. On the panels of experts, extremists on both sides came off as conspiracy theorists and nuts. Peace Action's Kevin Martin accused the government of not believing in basic American values, while Peter Brookes of The Heritage Foundation constructed a new theory of diplomacy that, it just so happened, would perfectly justify all the contradictory actions and positions the administration has taken on Iraq and North Korea.

Is the moderate view of Iraq as a threat -- but one that should only be addressed multilaterally -- nuanced or merely muddled? Is it a viable strategy or just fence-sitting for a group of people who, previously secure in their pro-war or anti-war positions, had to really consider opposite views for the first time?

American leaders too rarely understand that while some moderates are wafflers, many offer a genuinely different view of how the country can move forward. In the changing numbers of the poll, one finds such an alternate vision -- as opposed to mere mushy centrism. Among other things, one finds: a vision of a forceful and strong America -- fewer poll participants than control-group members were opposed to an invasion of Iraq under any circumstances -- but one in which that strength is only used in concert with other nations; a vision of an active foreign policy, but one that embraces interventions not only in cases of military necessity but also to deal with AIDS and global warming -- both of which the participants ranked as higher priorities after the poll than before; a decidedly pro-business spin -- 58 percent of participants called aiding the interests of U.S. business abroad "highly important," compared with 41 percent before the poll -- but with limits, as support for higher fuel-economy standards also increased during the conference.

Only a decade after a presidential campaign in which Ross Perot, a dubious candidate whose most memorable quote was about the "giant sucking sound" of jobs moving out of the country, got one-fifth of the popular vote, the moderate vision of a deliberative poll is actually quite radical. It's a vision of an America much more open -- perhaps even committed -- to a society that makes its military, social and economic decisions in a global context. In fact, the poll results may point the way toward a new American populism that -- quite unlike traditional American populism -- calls for less isolationism and recognizes the basic importance of economic growth. This new vision is the same moderate populism that the Democratic Leadership Council could have embodied before becoming a Bill Clinton promotion machine driven by large corporate donations. It's also the spark that many see in Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.).

Bizarrely but not unsurprisingly, given the administration's record of cunning and dishonest political moves, George W. Bush's representative at the poll, the Department of State's Richard Haass, went all out to tap into this populist vein. In the final expert session, participants quizzed Haass and Zbigniew Brzezinski, the Carter administration national security adviser. First, Haass told a questioner that there was not really a proven direct link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. Then, a few questions later, he brought up the 1980s movement to pressure companies to divest from South Africa as a positive example of how citizens could correct global injustices, conveniently glossing over the fact that Bush's father lifted government sanctions on South Africa in 1991, a full two years before the final abolition of apartheid. In fact, far from being in lockstep with administration hawks, Haass sounded moderate themes of levelheaded international intervention for reasons related to pragmatic security concerns and human rights. In sending Haass to the conference, Bush strategists seem to have guessed that once Americans had a chance to reflect on what was going on in the Middle East, the same old fist-shaking "axis of evil" rhetoric would not fit the bill. And the strategists were right.

On the flip side, this spirit of broad acceptance of America's role in the world caught Brzezinski by surprise. In response to a question from an audience member about whether the body populace could be entrusted to make foreign-policy decisions, Brzezinski said that before observing the poll, he thought not. But, sounding quite genuine, he said he had learned that "in terms of making basic sound judgements that provide a point of departure for rational conduct . . . I think they can do it."

Perhaps they can, and perhaps they can force this administration to actually follow the views that Haass espoused. But a poll itself cannot overcome the voices of large corporations -- the "legal persons" that Fishkin's polls do not sample -- that stand to benefit from war, or the screams of hawks in the White House. One of Fishkin's hopes is that poll participants will go back to their hometowns and inspire others to get involved in the democratic process. With a divided nation on the brink of war, that hope has never been more important.

___________________________________________________________
Adam Gordon is editor-in-chief of The Next American City, a new magazine covering the future of America's cities and suburbs.