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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (70893)	2/2/2003 5:50:03 AM
From: KonKilo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Were it evident that Pakistan's government were doing nothing to apprehend these people Apparently, the Pakistan government's efforts have been ineffective. Why do we tolerate that? BTW, I consider it rude for you to answer my question, and then later refer to it as BS to another poster.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (70893)	2/2/2003 3:03:33 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<we always have the option of leveraging our relationship with India to insure Pakistan's cooperation.> Not to mention the relationship with Russia, Afghanistan, and China now that the USA is easing off the stupidly belligerent attitude towards them. Incidentally, nearly all the top leaders in China are now engineers. quickstart.clari.net There is a popular myth that engineers lack the 'humanities' talents. This is a convenient way for those less intellectually endowed to give themselves status. Of course the truth is that engineers are as capable as others of handling social stuff. Engineers believe in causal relationships and natural laws, not mysticism. The Space Shuttle didn't crash because of divine intervention to punish the USA. It crashed because somebody didn't do something they should have done. The USA has enjoyed simply amazing success in a huge range of engineering and scientific endeavours because of the belief in causal relationships and objective belief [meaning others can test the truth of something for themselves, not simply trust the soothsayer of the moment]. Ethics and morality are not arbitrary things used when the moment suits. Ethics and morality are part of the concept of science and engineering because ethics is 'how things work' in the human realm. One need look no further than the lack of causal effect for the failure of Islam to do other than run repressive societies and medieval lives [apart from the technology and so on that they import from the scientific world]. Similarly, until Christian mysticism was shoved back into the cage it belongs in, Europe was a horror story of medieval madness. An example of an engineer being a social leader is Dr Irwin Mark Jacobs of QUALCOMM fame. He runs a highly successful social organisation, based strongly an an excellent ethical framework. QUALCOMM has a long list of awards. It'll be interesting to see where China goes with a fleet of engineers running the place. The USA seems increasingly bound in fundamentalist mysticism with some 80% purporting to be mystics of one sort or another. Part of the worry about King George II is his religiosity. We have all seen where rampant mysticism and megalomania leads. To death and mayhem. We know that and have seen it for thousands of years. It's a scary combination. The faintest whiff of it is enough to make blood run cold. Saddam is less scary in a way because he's too small to worry about [not in my book, but I think that's how many see him]. It will not in the least surprise me to see China continue its spectacular return to the crest of civilization and perhaps into the lead. However, the idea of freedom is an extremely powerful one and democracy is one way of ensuring that. It might be messy and wasteful, but it does provide a feedback loop from "We the Sheeple", which is missing in the "We the Engineers" system of China. I'm not sure what it all means, but it will certainly mean something. Something BIG because China is big and growing really fast economically. Mqurice PS: In Shanghai, China Unicom started commercial operations with their cdma2000 1xRTT network a few days ago [beginning of Year of the Sheeple, which is appropriate]. QUALCOMM seems to have been welcomed by the engineers of China.