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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (19126)	2/6/2003 5:09:59 AM
From: AK2004	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Frau Gustave re: to do with your so-called American Way of Life... we do not need a freaking nazi like yourself telling us what our way of life is, we'd rather carpet bomb belgium <gggggg>

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (19126)	2/6/2003 7:56:52 AM
From: average joe	Respond to of 23908

humour-sexy-gratuit.com

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (19126)	2/6/2003 12:36:00 PM
From: lorne	Respond to of 23908

EU Divided Over Invoking Name of God By CONSTANT BRAND Associated Press Writer February 5, 2003 BRUSSELS, Belgium -- The debate over a constitution for the European Union has hit a tough hurdle: Should the charter invoke the name of God? Some conservative EU officials want the EU's first constitution to mention God by name and define European values as including "those who believe in God as the source of truth, justice, good and beauty." The proposal faced strong opposition Wednesday -- one EU official called it "stupid" -- as a 13-member panel struggled to draft the charter's first six articles, dealing with Europe's fundamental values and powers. Leading the panel is former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing, who was expected to present a draft of the articles Thursday. EU officials said Wednesday the draft is not likely to mention God directly. They also said the text could be changed. The question of God and religion is highly contentious in Europe, where nations have very different histories of the relationship between government and religion. The French Revolution turned on separating the church from state matters. In Spain, a reference to Catholicism evokes memories of the fascist dictator Francisco Franco, who stamped every Spanish coin with his profile and backed his grip on power "by the Grace of God." By contrast, in Poland -- set to join the European Union in 2004 -- the Roman Catholic Church played a key role in guiding the country out of communism. The fractious debate started last month, when the European Convention -- an assembly of 105 representatives of the 15 EU governments, legislatures and institutions -- took up the question of how the charter should deal with powers and religion. The pro-God proposal, made by 20 conservatives, does not mention a specific religion but says God is part of Europe's "spiritual heritage." Others are just as devout in saying that heritage is secular. "Our identity is the fight for democracy, for human rights, for the separation between church and state," said Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio. Jan Zahradil, a Czech parliamentarian whose country will join the EU next year, said mentioning God in any EU charter was "a stupid idea (that) will only provoke disagreements. There should be no direct link to religion at all." But mentioning God in the EU treaty is important to many religious denominations, including Jewish, Muslim and Protestant organizations. Above all, it is important to the Vatican: The Roman Catholic Church has submitted personal pleas from the pope that Christianity should be stressed in any EU charter. "Christianity holds a privileged position" in Europe, the pontiff told the European Convention last month. Christian beliefs, he said, have "permeated Europe's history and institutions (and) all the Christian Churches have urged those drawing up the future Constitutional Treaty of the European Union to include a reference to Churches and religious institutions." Former Irish Prime Minister John Bruton, a member of the European Convention's executive panel, points out that many national constitutions in Europe already refer to God and religion. "There is an embarrassment to admitting to religious beliefs in our modern culture," he said recently. "For many people, their values come directly from their belief in God." newsday.com

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (19126)	2/7/2003 3:11:29 PM
From: Edscharp	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 23908

Gussy, Our "way of life" is very much contingent on preventing hot-head terrorists diving bombing head first into our skyscrapers. We have the right to defend ourselves against them, we have the right to stop those who finance them and provide them with aid and comfort. There is no crusade against Iraq. The crusade is against Saddam Hussein. I have no doubt that you and the other Euro-leftists will be thoroughly horrified to see the average Iraqis dancing in the streets once he is deposed. I used to think that the description of you as being a facist anarchist was inappropriate and a contradiction of terms. Having read so many of your posts I now realize that it describes you perfectly. Your complete willingness to defend anti-democratic and totalitarian regimes appears to be for the sole purpose of feeding your rabid anti-americanism. Indeed, it doesn't appear to me as though you have any other cause but the one.