.
I do not believe the will of man has anything at all
to do with being elected unto salvation.
That is exactly my point Brian. God's will reigns supreme in the universe. And according to both Christ and the apostle Paul in the inspired word of God, God wishes none to perish. You seem to want to ignore 1 Timothy 2:3&4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND COME UNTO A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. (KJV)
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTENCE.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
I believe that all whom the Father has given to Christ will "come to Him"
I completely and wholeheartedly agree here Brian. But let's take this to it's conclusion. What exactly has the Father given the Son?
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HAND
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
*IF* God willed for all men ( as in every body ) to come to Christ then surely they would but Christ does not say that "ALL" will come
but only those whom the father has given to Him. They are given BEFORE they come
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HAND
I think your view of universal redemption is utterly fabricated and an example of very poor exegesis.
But you have absolutely not refuted any scripture that I have shown you. You're saying "you fabricate" proves one thing. You can't disprove it. You call yourself "Elect". That means you believe in the total sovereignty of God. You've quoted me scripture proving that only the called or chosen will come to Christ during the ages!. However, your knowledge stops when time stops. You don't even acknowledge the consummation of the ages. You're pushing some type of "I'm better than the uncalled". Why are they the uncalled? Because it's not their time. YET! You really should study the greek word aion Brian. It would open up a whole new side of God you don't know yet. It would eliminate the contradictions in the KJV you now simply pretend don't exist. I'll give you one example. Hebrews 1:8 and Revelation 11:15 directly contradict 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 in the KJV/NIV/NSRV etc... Check it out for yourself.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
There are too many verses Alan that teach that God does not love everyone and many that teach that God actually hates the wicked.
I'll borrow this from L Ray Smith. I know he won't mind.
Let me show you some very easy to understand Scriptures in relation to the "wicked dead" and God's love for them:
Israel committed the most wicked sins against their God. "But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations, whether they went." (Ezek. 36:21). "And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them, and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes." (Ezek. 36:23). Where do you suppose this takes place, Heaven or Hell?
" ... I will take you from among the heathen ... bring you into your own land ... ye shall be clean from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you ... a new heart will I give you ... a new spirit will I put within you ... and cause you to walk in my statues, and ye shall keep my judgments...and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God." (Ezek. 36:24-28) " ... all Israel shall be saved ... " (Rom. 11:36).
Notice that GOD CAUSES all of these things to happen.
" ... the valley which was full of bones ... Son of man, can these bones live?... Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live ... and ye shall know that I am the Lord ... Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel ... Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves ... and ye shall know that I am the Lord ... And shall put my spirit in you and ye shall live ... then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it and performed it, saith the Lord" (Ezek.37:1-14).
Does this take place in Heaven or Hell?
"The whole house of Israel" who blasphemed God's name, who worshipped idols, who were filled with filthiness, and did not "know" the Lord are now pictured as dry bones in their graves. God raises them from their graves, puts His spirit in them, they live again, gives them a new heart, causes them to walk in His statutes, and blesses them in their own land and finally they know that God is the Lord that blesses them. Since God "opens their graves," and "brings you into your own land," just maybe, this takes place on this earth. What do you think?
Here are wicked, sinful people who died in their sins not knowing the Lord. God will resurrect them (back to life from the dead) and bless them. What do you think? Are these Scriptures too hard to understand? Did you never read them? I'm not trying to be your judge. I'm trying to help you to see just how simple and consistent God's Word is. These Scriptures glorify God. They demonstrate God's character. " ... though He punishes, yet will He have mercy." Yes, even " ... the HEATHEN [Africans and Gentiles] shall know that I am the Lord."
To think that God will seperate the sheep and the goats and then blend back in the goats later is based upon a presumption of the human mind and not scripture.
Wrong again Brian. You belittle Christ's sacrifice on the cross. It is sufficient for ALL. 1 John 3:8 For this reason was the Son of God made manifest, THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL In your world Brian, Christ doesn't destroy the works of the devil, He only relocates them to a place you call hell. Hell is simply the unseen, where there is no works or device or knowledge. You continue to repeat the first lie. You shall not surely die. Dead people are really dead Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they must die, but the dead know not anything
The wages of sin is death. But great news Brian. Jesus Christ will completely abolish sin and death. Abolish means it will be gone from the universe. No more sinners dead in their sins.
I also read a little of an article on one of the site you posted that was anti-tithe. It was horrible and full of error. I am sorry to see such unbiblical teaching to receive such wide acceptance and promotion. The tithe under the levitical priesthood is no longer in effect. The tithe under the Melchizedek (Melchisedec) priesthood is eternal - read Heb. chapter 7
Jesus would not even pray for the world (people) but only for those whom the Father had chosen out of the world - those who were ordained to believe with saving faith.
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Jesus would not even pray for them - and you think they will ALL be saved?
As you well know Brian, only the elect body of Christ will come unto a knowledge of the truth for the ages. The 1000 year reign and the new heaven and new earth. Those are the next two ages. We will live and reign with Christ during those ages. The ungodly will not. But don't belittle the saving power of Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Here's the same question for you Alan...
If Jesus prayed and willed that all men receive Him
and avoid Hell
would the will of man stop that? Absolutely Not.
Jesus said not my will Father but yours be done.
I'll end with this.
2 Corinthians 5:19 That God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESSPASSES UNTO THEM.....
Have a good one Brian. |
