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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: JohnM who wrote (72282)2/7/2003 9:46:38 PM
From: Thomas A Watson  Respond to of 281500
 
We have consensus... LOL. And I think our interchannel crosstalk is bloating...



To: JohnM who wrote (72282)2/8/2003 12:34:44 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
I assumed you watch Shields and Brooks on PBS tonight. The transcript is not yet available. My recollection of the talk on Iraq and Powell is as follows.

Brooks: We have now moved to the next stage with Powell's presentation. The question is no longer if we are going in, but how and with what goal. If people want to go round and round they may do so, but, unless Saddam turns Methodist, we are now down to the end game of "how do we go in, do we want just to disarm, or do we want to establish a Democracy, and if so, how?"

Shields: I don't know if Bush is a genius, just lucky, or both. He has in Powell a Sec of State that is like a tenured Professor at a Ivy League University. He is bullet proof. When people were asked in a recent survey, "Who do you trust on Iraq, Bush or Powell?", the answer was Powell, 64% to 24%. He made a great presentation, with Tenet behind him as a witness, at the UN. I can understand why my friend, Mary McGrory, (Liberal Columnist at the Washington Post) said she was convinced.



To: JohnM who wrote (72282)2/8/2003 5:07:38 AM
From: LindyBill  Respond to of 281500
 
By golly, now we have Bill Keller with us! Can Howell Raines be far behind? "New York Times"

lindybill@inmydreams.com

February 8, 2003
The I-Can't-Believe-I'm-a-Hawk Club
By BILL KELLER

[I] f the United States storms into Iraq, as now seems almost inevitable, it will have been airlifted to war with a tailwind from some unlikely sources.

For starters, three men who have little in common with President Bush have articulated the case for war better than the administration itself ? at least up until its recent crescendo of case-making. Tony Blair, who so resembles the American predecessor Mr. Bush despises, has been an eloquent and indispensable ally in the face of grave political risk. Hans Blix, the Swedish diplomat who embodies the patient, lawyerly internationalism some Bush partisans cannot abide, has managed without endorsing war to demonstrate Iraq's refusal to be contained. Kenneth Pollack, the Clinton National Security Council expert whose argument for invading Iraq is surely the most influential book of this season, has provided intellectual cover for every liberal who finds himself inclining toward war but uneasy about Mr. Bush.

The president will take us to war with support ? often, I admit, equivocal and patronizing in tone ? from quite a few members of the East Coast liberal media cabal. The I-Can't-Believe-I'm-a-Hawk Club includes op-ed regulars at this newspaper and The Washington Post , the editors of The New Yorker, The New Republic and Slate, columnists in Time and Newsweek. Many of these wary warmongers are baby-boom liberals whose aversion to the deployment of American power was formed by Vietnam but who had a kind of epiphany along the way ? for most of us, in the vicinity of Bosnia.

The president also has enough prominent Democrats with him ? some from conviction, some from the opposite ? to make this endeavor credibly bipartisan. Four of the six declared Democratic presidential hopefuls support war, with reservations. (Senator John Kerry seemed to come down from the fence last week after Colin Powell's skillful parsing of the evidence.)

We reluctant hawks may disagree among ourselves about the most compelling logic for war ? protecting America, relieving oppressed Iraqis or reforming the Middle East ? but we generally agree that the logic for standing pat does not hold. Much as we might wish the administration had orchestrated events so the inspectors had a year instead of three months, much as we deplore the arrogance and binary moralism, much as we worry about all the things that could go wrong, we are hard pressed to see an alternative that is not built on wishful thinking.

Thanks to all these grudging allies, Mr. Bush will be able to claim, with justification, that the coming war is a far cry from the rash, unilateral adventure some of his advisers would have settled for.

Does this mean, then, that Mr. Bush is pulling together a new American consensus about how to deal with the dangerous world he inherited?

I don't pretend to speak for the aviary, but almost all of the hesitant hawks go out of their way to disavow Mr. Bush's larger agenda for American power even as they salute his plan to use it in Iraq. This is worth dwelling on a little, because with this war the administration is not just taking on a dictator, it is beginning to define in blood the new American imperium.

What his admirers call the Bush Doctrine is so far a crude edifice built of phrases from speeches and strategy documents, reinforced by a pattern of discarded treaties and military deployment. It consists of a determination to keep America an unchallenged superpower, a willingness to forcibly disarm any country that poses a gathering threat and an unwillingness to be constrained by treaties or international institutions that don't suit us perfectly.

Let's imagine that the regime of Saddam Hussein begins to crumble under the first torrent of cruise missiles. The tank columns rumbling in from Kuwait are not beset by chemical warheads. There is no civilian carnage to rouse the Arab world against us. In fact, Al Jazeera shows American soldiers being welcomed by Iraqis as liberators. The illicit toxins are unearthed and destroyed. Persecuted Kurds and Shiites suppress the urge for clan vengeance.

If all this goes smoothly ? and even if it goes a little less smoothly ? Mr. Bush will hear a chorus of supporters claiming vindication. I imagine a triumphalist editorial or two in the neoconservative press. Pundits who earlier urged Mr. Bush to ignore Congress and the U.N. will assure him that he can now safely disregard everyone who caviled at the threshold of war, and urge him to get on with the next liberation in the series.

But in fact a victory in Iraq will not resolve the great questions of what we intend to be in the world. It will lay them wide open, and with them deep divisions within both of our political parties.

The first test we will face upon the conquest of Iraq is whether our aim is mainly to promote democracy, or mainly to promote stability. Some, probably including some in Mr. Bush's cabinet, will argue that it was all about disarmament. Once that is done, they will say, once Saddam's Republican Guard is purged, we can turn the country over to a contingent of Sunni generals and bring our troops home in 18 months.

"Some of these guys don't go for nation-building," says Senator Joseph Biden, the senior Foreign Relations Committee Democrat who has ended up supporting war as the least bad option. "They think it's cheaper to just go back and empty the swamp again if you have to."

Iraq would not become a great regional role model, though it would live better than it did under Saddam. The Saudis and probably the Israelis would prefer this to a rickety democracy governed by an unpredictable Shiite majority.

Others, in both parties, see Iraq as the beginning of the next colossal democracy project after the reformation of Eastern Europe. Fouad Ajami, a scholar with no illusions about the Middle East's capacity for heartbreak, has written that a MacArthur-style occupation of Iraq offers us the prospect of an Arab country "free of the poison of anti-Americanism" and offers the region "a break with the false gods of despotism." Nation-building may be vastly more expensive and difficult than swamp-clearing, but Mr. Ajami dares us to try. Mr. Bush has yet to take up that dare.


A second question will be whether, having used force, we continue to rely on force or lean more heavily on diplomacy. The most ardent think-tank interventionists have already mapped out a string of preventive conquests ? Iran, Syria, North Korea, Pakistan if its friendly president is ousted by Islamic militants, perhaps eventually China. They argue for more immense Pentagon budgets to build forces configured for pre-emptive strikes. The reluctant hawks will reply that, having demonstrated our might, we need not be so quick to exercise it again, particularly since (as we seem to have learned in North Korea) not all problems lend themselves to the remedy of airstrikes.

Iraq will also leave us arguing over how fully to enlist international organizations as partners in whatever global renovation we undertake, in Iraq and beyond. Being sole occupiers of an Arab land, as the Israelis have learned to their distress, is not a recipe for good will. Nor is it cheap.

"The more powerful we are, the more we need the United Nations," says Senator Biden ? to amortize the dangers and costs of stewardship. Mr. Bush has kicked some new life into the U.N., and been well repaid; I'd place a small bet that he will even get a second resolution on Iraq. Now we should stop treating it with such petulance and embrace it as a source of support and legitimacy.

So the war in Iraq does not settle the question of American power, but raises it to a new urgency. I think there is a consensus to be built. It is not the ultrahawk view of an America radiating indifference to everyone who gets in its way, keeping aspiring powers in their place, shunning the clumsy implements of international law and leading with its air force. Nor is it the Vietnam-syndrome reticence about American power that still holds portions of both parties in sway.

Ronald Asmus, a Clinton Europe hand who came to the idea of regime change by way of Slobodan Milosevic, imagines a consensus somewhat like the honorable coalition that grew up during Bosnia and Kosovo. The desire to save the Balkans united humanitarian Democrats who are not squeamish about force with idealistic Republicans who define American interest more broadly than self-defense. For a time, Paul Wolfowitz and Joseph Biden sang from the same hymnal. (The French foreign minister hummed along!)

"The question is, is this about American power, or is it about democracy?" Mr. Asmus asks. "If it's about democracy, we'll have a broader base of support at home and more friends abroad. The great presidents of the last century ? F.D.R., Wilson, Truman ? all tried to articulate America's purpose in a way that other parts of the world could buy into. Bush hasn't done that yet." Before long, we'll find out if he cares to.



To: JohnM who wrote (72282)2/8/2003 5:14:34 AM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Level with us, Mr. President

By Edward Kennedy
Editorial
The Boston Globe
2/8/2003

SECRETARY POWELL has made a convincing case to the United Nations Security Council that Saddam Hussein is a dangerous and deceptive dictator, and is concealing weapons of mass destruction. We live in a dangerous world and Saddam must be disarmed.

The question is, how to do it in a way that minimizes the risks to the American people at home, to our armed forces, and to our allies. Even after Secretary Powell's strong presentation, however, the president must still answer key questions before resorting to war.

The questions are obvious. It is far from clear that war is in our national interest now. Won't war with Iraq divert the administration's attention from more immediate and graver dangers to our security from the Al Qaeda terrorist network and the nuclear crisis on the Korean Peninsula? How much support will we have from the world community? What will be the cost in American lives, especially if the war involves hand-to-hand, door-to-door urban combat in Baghdad?

We will certainly win the war, but how do we win the peace if there are massive civilian casualties, if factional fighting fractures Iraq, if food, water, and medicine are in short supply and millions of Iraqis are displaced from their homes, or if a new wave of terrorism erupts against America as an occupying power, or because of the war itself? What if the war ignites a conflagration that consumes other nations in the Middle East. There is no more important decision by Congress or the president under the Constitution than the decision to send our men and women in uniform to war.

The Administration says we can fight a war in Iraq without undermining our most pressing national security priority - the war against terrorism. But a war in Iraq may strengthen Al Qaeda terrorists, especially if the Muslim world opposes us. We have not broken Osama bin Laden's will to kill Americans. Our nation has just gone on new and higher alert because of the increased overall threat from Al Qaeda. What if Al Qaeda decides to time its next attack for the day we go to war?

War with Iraq could swell the ranks of terrorists and trigger an escalation in terrorist acts.

As General Wesley Clark told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Sept. 23 that a war would ''super-charge recruiting for Al Qaeda.''

These are real dangers that the administration has minimized or glossed over in its determination to attack Iraq.

The administration maintains that there are convincing links between Al Qaeda and Iraq that justify war. There are links. But there are also links to other Middle Eastern countries. Al Qaeda activists are present in more than 60 countries.

Even within the administration, there are skeptics about the links with Iraq. CIA and FBI analysts are clearly questioning whether there is a clear and compelling pattern of links, and are concerned that intelligence is being politicized to justify war.

The UN inspectors have found no evidence so far of a revived nuclear weapons program in Iraq, but there is evidence in North Korea. With inspectors gone and North Korea gone from the Non-Proliferation Treaty, we face an urgent crisis, with nothing to prevent that nation from quickly producing a significant amount of nuclear materials and nuclear weapons for its own use, or for terrorists hostile to America and our allies. Desperate and strapped for cash, North Korea can easily provide nuclear weapons to terrorist groups.

The UN's inspectors fully understand the nature of the repressive and deceitful regime they are dealing with, but they need more time. Why not give it to them? We accomplished more disarmament in Iraq in seven years of inspections than we did during the Gulf War. We are on the verge of war with Iraq because of its weapons of mass destruction. Recently, we learned that the administration is considering even the use of nuclear weapons against Iraq - a reckless prospect that should set off alarm bells everywhere.

Using our nuclear arsenal in this unprecedented war would be the most fateful decision since the nuclear attack on Hiroshima.

It is far from clear that we will be safer by attacking Iraq. In an Oct. 7, 2002 letter to the Senate Committee on Intelligence, CIA Director George Tenet said the probability of Saddam Hussein initiating an attack on the United States was low. But his letter said, ''should Saddam Hussein conclude that a US-led attack could no longer be deterred, he probably would become much less constrained in adopting terrorist actions.''

The administration must be forthcoming about the potential human costs of war with Iraq, especially if it pushes Saddam into unleashing whatever weapons of mass destruction he possesses.

The administration has released no casualty estimates, and they could be extremely high. Many military experts have predicted urban guerrilla warfare - a scenario which retired General Joseph Hoar, who had responsibility for Iraq before the Gulf War, says could look ''like the last 15 minutes of `Saving Private Ryan.''' Nor has the administration been candid about the humanitarian crisis that could result from war. Refugee organizations are desperately trying to prepare for a flood of as many as 900,000 refugees.

Billions of dollars and years of commitment may well be needed to achieve a peaceful postwar Iraq, but the American people still do not know how that process will unfold and who will pay for it.

No war can be successfully waged if it lacks the strong support of the American people. Before pulling the trigger on war, the administration must tell the American people the full story about Iraq. So far, it has not.
_______________________________________________________

Edward M. Kennedy is the senior senator from Massachusetts.

© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.

boston.com