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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: James Calladine who wrote (14860)	2/13/2003 12:16:37 PM
From: Solon	Respond to of 28931

I'll comment on your very informative post tomorrow morning, James. I'm away for the day. (I liked it, btw)

To: James Calladine who wrote (14860)	2/14/2003 5:12:59 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Your choice to characterize your search for understanding, meaning, and happiness as a "hunger for God" is imagery, and no more validates the actuality of a God entity or presence than the hunger for Krishna validates Krishna, or the hunger for Thoth validates Thoth, or the hunger for Sobek validates Sobek. All people choose to symbolize their search for wholeness, happiness, and meaning in their own peculiar way as a reflection of culture and experience. So the fact that you describe past distress and malaise as a "hunger for God" has absolutely no bearing on whether or not such a Being or Force has any existence beyond your yearning. You stated that you were lacking meaning, understanding, and happiness, so your "hunger for God" would appear to reference these unfulfilled appetites through the imagery of God. Your reference to repeated "failures" seem to instance your repeated marriages, jobs, etc. Now a "failure" is simply an unmet standard. The standard may be without or within, but in any case it is never objective or fixed, but is a function of personal choice. Has it occurred to you that you were seeking happiness and meaning OUTSIDE of yourself, and that this accounts for the unwillingness or inability for others to provide it for you? Good. Have you considered the possibility that you may yet be seeking happiness and meaning OUTSIDE yourself and that THAT is why you have been a devotee and follower for 18 years? Well...it is just a thought. Well, it doesn't matter. You are satisfying what you like to call your "hunger for God". Greg would appear to satisfy his "hunger" through the ferocious and bellicose God of the ancient Israelite tribes. Frederick satisfies his "hunger" for God through the manipulation of prime numbers to form patterns with dates and events. Some Muslims recently satisfied their "hunger" for God (and undoubtedly experienced the "ecstasy" of God) when they murdered several thousand people. I don't bring this distasteful and repugnant fact up in order to mock your path in any way, but only to emphasize that the "hunger for God" and the desire to obey outside authority for direction and guidance can have serious and tragic consequences. I think this needs to be acknowledged, don't you? I remember reading a book titled, "If You Meet The Buddha On The Road, Kill Him". I think it fairly characterizes how I consider this entire guru business. "People do not need an "answer" in order to find peace. They need only to surrender to their existence, to cease the needless, empty questioning. The secret of enlightenment is when you are hungry, eat; and when you are tired, sleep! The Zen Master warns: "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!" This admonition points up the fact that no meaning that comes from outside of ourselves is real! The "Buddhahood" of each of us has already been obtained. We need only recognize it! Philosophy, religion, patriotism, all are empty idols. The only meaning in our lives is what we each bring to them." IF YOU MEET THE BUDDHA ON THE ROAD, KILL HIM! --- THE PILGRIMAGE OF PSYCHOTHERAPY PATIENTS by Sheldon B. Kopp. Bantam Books, 1972 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ACKNOWLEDGMENTS PART 1 --- Take from no man his song (p3-30) 1) Pilgrims and disciples (3-10) 2) The healing metaphors and the guru (p11-19) 3) Disclosing the self (p20-30) PART 2 --- Telling of the tales (p31-43) 1) Tale of a man against the gods (p31-43) 2) Tale of a spoiled identity (p44-54) 3) Tale of a discontented disciple (p55-65) 4) Tale of a quest for love (p66-76) 5) Tale of a power trip (p77-89) 6) Tale of a mad knight (p90-102) 7) Tale of a descent into hell (p103-109) 8) Tale of a search for belonging (p110-123) 9) Tale of a holy warrior (p124-130) 10) Tale of the eternal Jew (p131-139) 11) Tale of a journey into the darkness of the heart (p140-148) PART 3 --- Fragments of the education of a fool (p149-183) 1) Who cares? (p151-158) 2) The land and the sea (p159-171) 3) Some for Him and some for me (p172-183) PART 4 --- If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him! (p185-214) 1) Learning to learn (p187-197) Whether pilgrims or wayfairers, while seeking to be taught the "TRUTH" (or something), disciples learn only that there is nothing that anyone else can teach them! They learn --- once they are willing to give up being taught --- that they already know how to live, that it is implied in their own tales. The secret is that there is no secret! Everything is just what it seems to be. This is it! There are no hidden meanings. The Zen way to see the truth is through your everyday eyes. It is only the heartless questioning of life-as-it-is that ties a person in knots. People do not need an "answer" in order to find peace. They need only to surrender to their existence, to cease the needless, empty questioning. The secret of enlightenment is when you are hungry, eat; and when you are tired, sleep! The Zen Master warns: "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!" This admonition points up the fact that no meaning that comes from outside of ourselves is real! The "Buddhahood" of each of us has already been obtained. We need only recognize it! Philosophy, religion, patriotism, all are empty idols. The only meaning in our lives is what we each bring to them. Killing the Buddha on the road means destroying the hope that anything outside of ourselves can be our master! No one is any "bigger" than anyone else. There are no "mothers" and "fathers" for grown-ups, only "sisters" and "brothers!" We must each give up the Master, without giving up the search for TRUTH! 2) The pilgrimage of the young (p198-205) 3) My pilgrimage to the sea (p206-214) EPILOGUE (p215-224) CHAPTER NOTES (p225-236) SUGGESTED READING (p237-238) ABOUT THE AUTHOR (p339)