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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: LindyBill who wrote (74206)2/15/2003 10:47:52 AM
From: KonKilo  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
LB,

I respect your opinion of Fisk, but I think he has found the pulse of much of the anti-war/go slow movement, or more accurately perhaps, groundswell.

Those who oppose war are not cowards. Brits rather like fighting; they've biffed Arabs, Afghans, Muslims, Nazis, Italian Fascists and Japanese imperialists for generations, Iraqis included – though we play down the RAF's use of gas on Kurdish rebels in the 1930s. But when the British are asked to go to war, patriotism is not enough. Faced with the horror stories, Britons – and many Americans – are a lot braver than Blair and Bush. They do not like, as Thomas More told Cromwell in A Man for All Seasons, tales to frighten children.

As for my recent posts, I have believed and do believe that there are valid, reasonable justifications for possible action in Iraq.

What makes me dig in my heels is the rush to all-out war on flimsy evidence...makes even my suspicions suspicious.

As for Bush & Co, they would do better to respect the people's collective intelligence. The web has made Gulf of Tonkin and incubator-style ruses obsolete and ineffective as propaganda.

Just tell us your real reasons for wanting to commit our boys and our tax money to this cause. We and the world might even agree with you.



To: LindyBill who wrote (74206)2/15/2003 10:51:27 AM
From: michael97123  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
NY Times editorial. Thought it was worth posting. Only question unanswered by NYT is whether the US should go it alone if the UN continues to screw around.
nytimes.com

Disarming Iraq
As much as the feuding members of the United Nations Security Council might like Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei to settle the question of war or peace with Iraq, these two mild-mannered civil servants can't make that fateful judgment. All they can do, which they did again yesterday, is to tell the Council how their inspection efforts are faring. So-so was the answer. It's up to the Council members — especially the veto-wielding quintet of the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China — to decide whether Iraq is disarming.

In our judgment, Iraq is not.
The only way short of war to get Saddam Hussein to reverse course at this late hour is to make clear that the Security Council is united in its determination to disarm him and is now ready to call in the cavalry to get the job done. America and Britain are prepared to take that step. The time has come for the others to quit pretending that inspections alone are the solution.

The Security Council, as we said the other day, needs to pass a new resolution that sets a deadline for unconditional Iraqi compliance and authorizes military action if Baghdad falls short. Without that, the French proposal that Mr. Blix and Dr. ElBaradei report again in mid-March is the diplomatic equivalent of treading water. It practically invites President Bush to take the undesirable step of going to war without the support of the Security Council.


Just as they did last month, the inspectors offered a mixed picture that allowed all sides to draw sustenance for their arguments. What should not be missed is that the positive aspects of the reports dealt largely with secondary matters like process and access. On the essential issue of active Iraqi cooperation in the disclosure and destruction of prohibited unconventional weapons, the inspectors could find little encouraging to say.

That leaves the fundamental picture about where it was last weekend, except that another week has passed without Iraq doing what it urgently needs to do. It's easy to see where France's wishful thinking leads. Baghdad could continue dribbling out meaningless concessions such as yesterday's laughable decree that the development of weapons of mass destruction is now prohibited in Iraq.

Mr. Blix and Dr. ElBaradei cannot be left to play games of hide-and-seek. This is not like Washington's unproved assertions about an alliance between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. There is ample evidence that Iraq has produced highly toxic VX nerve gas and anthrax and has the capacity to produce a lot more. It has concealed these materials, lied about them, and more recently failed to account for them to the current inspectors. The Security Council doesn't need to sit through more months of inconclusive reports. It needs full and immediate Iraqi disarmament. It needs to say so, backed by the threat of military force.



To: LindyBill who wrote (74206)2/15/2003 3:17:59 PM
From: Sig  Respond to of 281500
 
Thanks for the Bomb -maker post
Saddam will be busy this weekend
Writing IOU's
To France: $10 bil in future oil contracts + purchase of missile parts for your "NO" vote
To Germany : IOU $5 bil in future oil contracts etc
He could have sold the output of his wells 100 times over what they are worth, no one would know until they compare notes or try to collect. Kenneth Lay knows that
Sig



To: LindyBill who wrote (74206)2/15/2003 9:18:25 PM
From: JohnM  Respond to of 281500
 
Robert Fiske is right in there with Noam Chomsky, Susan Sontag, Ted Rall, Arundhati Roy, and Barbara Kingsolver, as a member of the honor roll of "blame-America-firsters."

Geez, my reading list for next week. What does that make me?

Missed the NYC demonstration today because of a stomach bug. But some of my family made it. Cheers.