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Politics : Your Thoughts Regarding France? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Scrapps who wrote (67)	2/16/2003 6:49:29 AM
From: Arthur Radley	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 662

Scrapps, Concerning your post of ignorance on another thread, as you know I attempted to point out a little history to you in a private message. You responded that you didn't read my message, and that your thoughts on France were discussed here. So! If you prefer your ignorance of history to be pointed out in an open forum....fine with me! Your points and my response: 1) "So the French don't have any success to claim since the 1700." Response: Scrapps! Have you ever heard of a little fellow by the name of Napoleon? Seems that he conquered most of Europe and was the dominate leader in Europe well into the 1800. The French Empire extend throughout the world and was still in existence until the mid 1950's. Go back and look up the names of countries that began with the word...French _ _. Might surprise you as to the fact that they existed in the Far East, Carribean, Africa, and South America until only about 50 years ago. And finally Scrapps, have you ever heard of the Louisiana Purchase...you know! That vast part of the current United States of America that "WE" had to purchase from France in 1803, not in the 1700's. 2) "They have the world speed record for a world power surrendering." Response: First of all, Germany had the world's largest and most powerful military force when they invaded France in 1939. Granted...a vast portion of France was taken over in a six week time-frame, by the invading Germans. However, there remained a very strong French Resistance force and they even had an exiled government in Vichy. What is ironic about this is the fact that when the American colonists started a little rebellion that we call the American Revolution, guess who they turned to for help? The first envoy that the colonist sent to another nation asking for help....WAS TO PARIS, FRANCE. And how did the French respond to this request? They sent money, technical support and SOLDIERS. At the turning point battle in this American Revolution, that being the Battle of Yorktown, their were about 9,000 colonists soldiers and standing shoulder to shoulder with them was approximately 8,000 French soldiers. Now juxtapose the French request for United States aid when they had been conquered by the invading Hitler army! Basically and constantly we told them.."Hey! This is your war. Hitler is your problem." Read the number of speeches given by the United States president during this time and note the number of times he said.."The United States is NOT going to send our soldiers to a foreign soil to participate in this war." If the refusal to send aid wasn't enough, we continued to supply the German's with war materials. I guess the most ironic thing about the lead up to the US involvement in WW II was the fact that up until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, WE were sending them airplane parts. Airplanes that they used to attack us with! And Scrapps, here is something for your to think about. Going into WWII, Germany had the strongest and most powerful military force in the world. But to operate this war machine they didn't have one thing....OIL! Scrapps, during this time in history, do you know who control about 60% of the world's oil production and therefore exported oil to other nations? 3) "As for a world power surrendering" (You meaning the French) Response: Geez! Scrapps you really aren't up to much history are you? I guess you slept through those boring lessons about the Korean War and the VietNam War. These being the last major wars against "real" forces of resistance. I know you want to only remember the Gulf War...the war against such a formidable foe. But looking back at the Korean and VietNam....hummm! Speaking of a world power surrendering...well lets at least say we merely tucked our tails and ran, because we sure didn't "kick any ass". Again it is ironic, because the French warned us..."Don't try to use your military might in Vietnam, as it will be for a lost cause." Only after 30,000+ lost lives in the paddy fields did we final understand what the French had warned us about. Scrapps, I guess you must be to young to remember those US helicopters lifting off from Hanoi as the Viet Cong moved into the city and took over all of Vietnam. Maybe this explains your lack of history! And finally, 4)" Can you say Panama Canal." ( In this statement you were referring to the French failure in building the canal.) Scrapps, you should be a little chagrin in bringing the Panama Canal into this debate. Guess again it is your lack of understanding history that gets you into these quagmires. Scrapps, the issue of the Panama Canal and desire of the United States to use force to get something they want...OIL and Canals is the whole issue relating to Iraq...isn't it! We want something! First of all it wasn't the French government that failed to build the Panama Canal, but merely a French company. A company that failed because they ran out of money. Scrapps, the French company went bankrupt and therefore had no government to back them up with more funding. In the case of the US building the canal, it was a government funded effort. But Scrapps, the issue of funding and versus who actually built the canal isn't the issue. The issue is HOW the United States came about "GETTING" the chance to build the canal. Scrapps, the land where the Panama Canal is built, was at the time leading up to it being built, was a part of the sovereign nation of Colombia. The US tried to undermine the French efforts in the region, and when they saw the opportunity they stirred up the local population to rebel against Colombia. WE rattled our sabres and sailed out our naval fleet to show Colombia that if they didn't give in to the natives of now Panama, we would use our military might to destroy them. The Colombian government not being stupid, quickly ceded this land and the country of Panama was formed... AND within TWO weeks of this new nation being formed...guess what? The United States of American signed an agreement with the new government to build the PANAMA CANAL. Sure Scrapps..spin it your way...the United States intervened because we wanted merely for the current residences of Panama to have their freedom from Colombia. I guess the moral of this story is that eventually one reaps their reward for forcing a country to give us something. I guess our reward is that now we are getting all the drugs that our youth can consume, from a country by the name of Colombia. But Scrapps, I guess the real irony of this issue of France and the current problem of our government trying to stop the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction( nuclear weapons), have you ever heard of a gentlemen by the name of Pierre Curie and his wife, Marja Sklodowska? Guess what country they lived in and did their discoveries! But most of all guess what they discovered!

To: Scrapps who wrote (67)	2/16/2003 7:03:47 AM
From: Arthur Radley	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 662

Scrapps, Just so you will have a better understanding of this issue of oil and how it has played such a part of US history...and especially the darkside of US involvement against the European nations fighting the evil Herr Hitler and his war machine. Makes one wonder why the French ever let their crepes be exported to this country. reformed-theology.org Now let your little right wing friends go into their denial mantras as to this being an untruth and non-factual recount of US history. Just remember...DENIAL, ain't a river in Egypt.