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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: hmaly who wrote (161444)	2/18/2003 11:50:39 AM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1574051

Ted RE...Why? Because Europe could easily hide behind the US's strength and let the US do the dirty work, but instead they are choosing not to........which doesn't make sense if they were coming from weakness as the author asserts......the weak always cling to the strong. But what if Europe had a way of becoming strong, and didn't need the US for its strength. By uniting into the Eu, separating the european countries out of Nato into a European NATO, and using the UN, where Europe has 18 votes to the US one; Europe can once again brandish its power, and doesn't need the US. Suddenly, American desires for unity, become bullying, because Europe doesn't want to follow the US lead, Europe wants to say what the lead is, and have the US follow. First, I was responding to the argument in the article posted by Z. However, I think there is something to your argument. I don't think Europe was necessarily looking to "brandish its power"; however, a militaristic, aggressive US may force into rethinking its position and where it wants to go from here. I don't think you see how threatening the US has become to the rest of the world. The hawks think itself a good thing......walk loudly and wave that stick around........most of the rest of the world doesn't share in your satisfaction. ted

To: hmaly who wrote (161444)	2/18/2003 12:05:33 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1574051

However,as European businesses grew after the war, Europe has reached a point, where the European based businesses are being strangled, and have stagnated. Does the left concede, and conclude that european businesses in order to survive, need relaxed wage rules, no. They decide to combine into one big EU. They want to outbig America. Which sounded fine, except it didn't work, Europe stagnated throughout the 90,s while America; who gave businesses more power; grew at a torrid pace. Part of the EU problem is not recognizing that small businesses, not big businesses were the engine of growth, INTC or MSFT, were small 20 yrs ago. So their unions, which were designed to control big businesses, also kept their engines of growth checked. Europe did form the EU in order to remain competitive in the world but it wasn't like they were another Japan. Countries keep reinventing themselves......the US economy in the 90s was not the slug it was in the 80s. As for Europe's stagnation in the 90s, I think it had more to do with the development of the EU, the strict parameters for admission into the EU, and the incumbent problems that come with an undertaking of this magnititude. In ten years, if the EU is in the same place it is now, then I would consider it may be a failure. The same goes for wars, Europe did poorly controlling Yugoslavia, and needed US help. The old days, of taking yrs to prepare a navy, or army, then go off and fight a set piece war are over. Now the war is over before you can get ready, if you aren't prepared. Europe isn't prepared for that, so Europe needs the UN to slow things down, and debate it to death, because Europe sure isn't ready to win any other way. Europe is slowing things down through the UN because they don't see the urgency that Bush sees. In fact, they are a little bit concerned with Bush's over reaction to the problem. Saddam is a pain in the ass but has not been a threat for ten years. In any case, its no more complicated than that. And the more Bush acts like a cowboy on a bucking bronco, the more they will consider developing their own military forces. ted