Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (75162)	2/18/2003 2:59:15 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Michael, you are part way there, but I think missed a couple of key points. Meanwhile, your compliment is returned. I like discussions with people who can correct faults in ideas I have and who might be persuaded of those ideas if they are faultless. Posts to Anthony@ and the like are a waste of time. Reasonable people are swarming in cyberspace. What a great medium. I could look around Auckland all day and not find many people as are right here on FADG. The power of that should not be misunderestimated. Memes are the turbo power of humanity and they swoosh around the world now in seconds instead of centuries. Memes are what we are about. The meme I'm pushing is the reconstituted United Nations. There are few people who really want to half fry children or semi-dissect their mothers with shrapnel. We the Sheople are seeking a life of independence in the context of civilized nations and the security and prosperity they offer. The dog eat dog world of 19th century geopolitics and 20th century megagovernment, genocide, religicide and megalomania are not what we seek as a way of life. Because we no longer have the pressure of 10 children per woman and nowhere to put them [all land being taken and land being the wealth unit in pre 20th century life], the inbuilt pressure for conflict has almost totally gone. We are left with megalomania [Saddam, Kim Jong Il], genocide [Rwanda, Arabs against Jews], religicide [IRA, Saddam, Arabs against Jews, Kosovo, Chechnya and the whole ring of Moslem 'rule the world' jihad MADness and Big Brother Government in the not-very-free-at-all democratic countries. What you wrote is quite right. But then what? It leaves the USA as the world's policeman and I can tell you that you will tire very quickly from such a thankless task. Already, the USA doesn't actually help the suffering, repressed hordes. They merely defend their own interests - hence the accusation that "It's the oil, silly!" Repressive regimes have been fine with the USA if there's no oil involved and especially if they were 'right wing' [hoping I'm using the right definition] and particularly meaning "Against the USSR". So the credibility of "We only want to save the world" isn't very convincing to we aliens. King George II very specifically was NOT interested in saving the world or even peeking over the ocean until Osama got him right between the eyes. Which not surprisingly got King George II seriously angry. Now, the USA is about to do what Osama wants, which is get Saddam out of the saddle. That will open the way for Islamic insurrection. <what I don't believe many appreciate, is the way in which America expands is unlike any power in history. We expand by spreading the idea of freedom, liberty and democracy. Each nation still controls his/her own destiny under that umbrella. With great power does come great responsibility, and we simply can't sit back and watch fanatical leaders control large segments of populations, where torture, cruelty, starvation and fear are life norms. > The USA had success with Japan, South Korea, Germany after WWII etc. It would be better to extend that success without waiting for the Pearl Harbour, 911 and Panzer attacks around the Maginot line. Better to act pre-emptively when the malevolence is obvious and the solution available. The world is saying it wants a UN, but we all recognize the poor constitution and uselessness of the UN, not to mention the absurdity of Iraq being in charge of disarmament and Libya or Syria in charge of human rights. The USA is big enough and tough enough and the world says it wants a UN. So give the world what it wants = a real UN, just as the USA gave Japan their constitution. Hold a UN Reconstitution conference in Baghdad in July. Invite everyone now. Saddam's palaces should have space available. It's a central location. It's the cradle of civilization so where better to start the United States of Freedom. There's plenty of oil in Iraq to fund the event and Iraq's security and administration, elections and policing. There's also enough oil to fund a fair bit of development into other regions of the world where resolution of megalomania, religicide, genocide, weapons of mass destruction are needing a spot of attention. For example, just over the fence in Palestine there seems to be a bit of bother. The warring parties could be called to Baghdad to account and get their instructions on how it's going to be. The UN set up Israel and the USF can fix the problems. The USA would maintain security, drain swamps around the world, enjoy an economic turbo-boost [peace dividends in the 1990s were great] and avoid getting bogged down in foreign nightmares every few years. We the Sheople could happily gambol in the paddocks without wolves hunting us down. I'm sure some foreign policy, constitutional, geopolitical geeks, wonks and nerds would love to draft a brand new United States of Freedom constitution. The legal guild would love to set up an international court to ensure habeas corpus and that universally popular common law stuff where humans are not 'disappeared' at the convenience of some thugs who happen to have shot their way to power. The army of governmental bureaucratic kleptocrats would be drooling and slavering over the prospects - the constitution would need to firmly limit the intrusiveness, taxation and other imposts by the federal system on individual nations. The limits to power would have to be much tighter than those in the USA constitution which lets the federal government run rampant over the states. We the Sheople do not want Big Brother ruling our every move like some monster Kremlin. We just want the wolves held at bay. Mqurice PS: <In regard to your statement of prisoners being held in-lu-of habeas corpus rights. I would assume you're talking about the captured Taliban and assorted suspected terrorist held in Cuba. One thing to keep in mind is America was attacked; we are at war with these people. > Yes, that's who I meant, as well as those held inside the USA under whatever the "You might be a terrorist" laws are now used to round them up and hold them without trial. The problem is "these people". The whole point of habeas corpus is to ensure that some of "these people" don't turn out to be "those people", who are in fact not guilty of anything. When there's a big box to shove people in, there is invariably temptation to "Toss that bastard in too - that'll teach him not to be a smart aleck and nobody will know". It's just too convenient and everyone is too busy to worry about a particular individual. Or, there is simply oversight and by mistake somebody is left to rot. Heck, doctors can't even keep track of blood groups when doing heart and lung transplants so prison guards aren't going to be too worried about checking the pedigree and keeping track of each person who is allegedly a terrorist.