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Politics : Let's Start The War And Get It Over With -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

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To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/26/2003 5:14:28 PM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   GFY

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/26/2003 6:20:12 PM From: Lazarus_Long   Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 808   Hey, buddy, when you need bail . . . . don't call me. Being a socialist demolib, I have no worries about you being able to make it yourself. Not unless the recycling business really picks up.

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/26/2003 9:11:13 PM From: Lazarus_Long   Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 808   Say, PartyLine, is this true? Message 18633117 Your contribution to the war effort will be to sponge off the productive people in society?

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/27/2003 5:03:50 AM From: Vitas   Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 808   PartyTime, you don't deny this statement, do you:? "it is clear that their primary motive is to trample President Bush at any cost due to the 2000 election result" Message 18634887 or any other statement in the linked post?

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/27/2003 3:59:23 PM From: Vitas   Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 808   "We are not going to shoot them (the Americans) in the back," added Pierre Lellouche, the unofficial leader of the "Atlanticist" block. Message 18637534

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/27/2003 10:22:26 PM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   Adopt-a-dictator Hussein the homeless? If forced into exile, Saddam should consider his next gig. By Roy Rivenburg, Times Staff Writer In a last-ditch bid to avoid war with Iraq, diplomats are trying to persuade Saddam Hussein to go into exile. The question is: Where to send him? All the traditional places -- Elba, Siberia, Madonna's next movie -- are unavailable. Although Hussein told Dan Rather he'd never leave Iraq, negotiators haven't given up. But they are getting desperate for ideas. Does MTV's "Real World" need a new roommate for its Las Vegas pad? Would Sean Penn be willing to welcome Hussein as a houseguest? As a public service, we contacted various sources to see if they might have a place in their hearts and homes for a deposed Iraqi dictator: Orkin Pest Control Given Hussein's expertise with deadly chemicals, a job in the pesticide industry seemed like a good bet. "Um, we could test pesticides on him," company spokeswoman Martha Craft suggested. "Or rodenticides. But we wouldn't want him on the operating end of a sprayer." Fox TV On the heels of "Joe Millionaire," Fox could produce a new series called "Joe Dictator," in which 20 beautiful women compete to become Hussein's mistress. During the courting process, Hussein would tell the women he's the potentate of an oil-rich Middle Eastern nation. Not until the final episode would he reveal the truth -- that he has been driven from power and doesn't have a single weapon of mass destruction to his name. Will the woman he chooses still love him? Mike Darnell, the Fox exec in charge of "alternative series," declined to comment on whether the network would be willing to make this contribution to world peace. World Wrestling Entertainment If professional wrestling needs a new bad guy, we have the perfect candidate: Saddam Insane. WWE spokesman Gary Davis agreed: "If we could make him a professional wrestler who gets beaten into oblivion each week on 'Raw SmackDown,' then, yes, we could find a home for him." Sean Penn An ardent antiwar activist, the actor recently bought a $56,000 ad in the Washington Post to urge peace and visited Baghdad on a "fact-finding" mission. Would he be willing to go the extra mile and adopt Hussein as a houseguest? Penn's publicist, Mara Buxbaum, was not amused by the question. "It seems highly inappropriate and offensive to include Sean in your article," she said. "If you're going to mention him, I will be contacting his lawyers." Buxbaum noted that during Penn's trip to Iraq, the actor never said anything kind about Hussein. "He called him a tyrant," she said. UCLA Can anything snap UCLA's basketball team out of its slump? How about a strong disciplinarian as assistant coach? "Is this a joke?" asked athletic department spokesman Marc Dellins. "We don't want any part of it." "The Real World: Las Vegas" Is there room for one more stranger in the infamous hot tub? Would Trishelle consider hooking up with an elderly ex-dictator? A publicist for MTV said the producers didn't want to comment. Hearst Castle As the owner of 78 presidential palaces, Hussein would probably be an excellent groundskeeper for the former estate of William Randolph Hearst. Unfortunately, state park employees must pass a rigorous background check, said spokesman Dan Eller: "He'd never make it." Esalen Institute Does Big Sur's touchy-feely New Age center need a new workshop leader? "I like the idea of him running an anger management program," said Esalen spokesman David Price. Executive recruitment firms As the CEO of Iraq, Hussein has a management style that might transfer to the corporate world. Outplacement expert John Challenger, of Chicago-based Challenger, Gray and Christmas, said Hussein could market himself as a hatchet man for hostile corporate takeovers. He could be another Al "Chain Saw" Dunlop of Sunbeam or "Neutron Jack" Welch of General Electric, both known for heavy layoffs, Challenger said. "We could call him 'Anthrax Saddam.' " If all else fails, perhaps Hussein could find employment with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety as a crash test dummy. calendarlive.com

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/27/2003 11:27:52 PM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   hey Potty, now that you are online you have many replies waiting to be answered: siliconinvestor.com

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/28/2003 5:52:56 AM From: Vitas   Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 808   BREAKING NEWS: PARTYTIME AGREES THAT INVASION IS JUSTIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! question: "What would it take for you or anyone here to simply say, "That's it, he's gotta go." PARTYTIME: To:Mark Konrad who wrote (13836) From: PartyTime Friday, Feb 28, 2003 2:22 AM View Replies (1) | Respond to of 13859 Irrefutable proof that Saddam was involved in 9/11. That he kicked the weapons inspectors out, when he didn't is insufficient reason; that he's not in compliance with a UN Resolution, (IRAQ IN MATERIAL BREACH OF U.N. RESOLUTION 1441 since December 7, 2002) when others like Israel are as well, is insufficient reason; that he used gas in previous warfare when his warring opponent did as well, is insufficient; that America has to liberate people who've not asked to be liberated is an insufficient reason; (so.........they have a referendum on the issue? see INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS:) Message 18634893 that America has unilaterally decided to change governments in the Middle East is also an insufficient reason. Bush's invasion would be a clear violation of international law. (NOT TRUE) Moreover, he used bogus information, pre-election, in order to convince Democrats to support a resolution favoring military action--this resolution should be immediately rescinded. Here are the three principles for a just war: a) Self-defense of one's self or an ally. (NOT TRUE) b) That all remedies to prevent a war have been exhausted. (THEY HAVE) c) That the war itself will not cause more harm than not having the war. (Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. John F. Kennedy The present situation does not fit into any of the above criteria and the very large body of world opinion supports this, as do the governments of most countries on the face of the earth. (NOT TRUE) --------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: comments in parenthesis are mine

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 2/28/2003 7:30:07 AM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   nice post: To:mishedlo who wrote (28654) From: Steve Lee Thursday, Feb 27, 2003 5:45 PM View Replies (6) | Respond to of 28708 By going after Saddam, US/UK are going to do Iraq a favor. Even if we end up making money from the oil and having a better economy due to mroe oil on the market (hence lower prices), then the Iraqi people still win. There will be a little taste of the free world in the Middle East, which the people of the neighboring countries can envy. Saddam has chemical weapons. There are thousands of tons of unaccounted materials. If these have been destroyed, even years ago, there will be burial sites containing thousands of toins of waste. I doubt he has a nuclear bomb but he had a nuclear program. Do you think he would restart that program given the chance? Would you like to see Saddam with a few nukes? If you withdraw the US forces in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait then that is what will happen. Would you like the continuing starvation of the poor in Iraq due to sanctions, or remove the sanctions so that Saddam can rebuild his military might with the valuable Iraqi Oil? You criticise US for going after the oil, but the alternative is that Saddam has it. It isn't his oil, but he will have it anyway and the proceeds will go towards him, not his people. Towards his palaces, his torture regime, his weapons program. Do you want hundreds of UN inspectors there for evermore? Is that how you like to see your tax dollars spent on their six figure salaries, desert-hardy vehicles, helicoipters, lab support workers and equipment, back office support nnetwork all over the world. That aint cheap but how much of it do you think is funded by UN members such as Libya and Syria who want the inspectors to stay indefinitely? When almost the entire world was appeasing Hitler, was Britain right or wrong to stand up to him in 1939. Or should they have taken your attitude and said "well he hasn't attacked us yet, Poland's problem is not our problem, let's concentrate on our own problems" and allowed Hitler to get stronger until his strength reached the point where he couldn't be beaten? Perhaps back then UK should have declared war a couple of years earlier when Hitler was building up his strength. Perhaps back then US should have got involved in 1939, instead of waiting until an attack on home soil. If US had thrown their full weight into WW2 in 1939, then maybe Pearl Harbor wouldn't have happened and millions of people wouldn't have died in battle. Now you want to repeat the same mistake. Let Bush go in, he can steal the oil for all the Iraqi people could care, they don;'t get the benefit of it today. Let him break OPEC's cartel and reduce the cost of doing business and break the financial strength of the dictators that exchange oil for bullets. Sure Bush makes some stupid statements and gets confused between the bible and the constitution, but on the Iraq issue he is dead right. And when it is all over, he will be looking pretty good, and the Frances and Germanys of the world will be looking plain dumb. And the world will be a better place. Message 18638022

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 3/1/2003 7:25:19 AM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   I see the 14,000 post grub got your attention: To:Vitas who wrote (14000) From: PartyTime Friday, Feb 28, 2003 9:47 PM Respond to of 14205 We welcome opinions, especially crtically thought-out ones. Insult, however, is quite another matter. Insult breeds insult and little else. Every now and then one has to limit insult, lest it be creatively and poignantly delivered. Dumb names and childish terminology, you must learn to know, do in no way or mannner fit this critieria. Vitas if I ever insulted you because you insulted me, well I apologize. But the greater apology needed here is the one you should deliver to this thread. That you want us to think of you as rambunctious, well, you've succeded there. That you want us to think you deliver intelligent arguments to support your viewpoint, well, please do deliver same. So far we've not seen it. ----------------------------------------------------------- your statements are all completely untrue anyone who has had experience trying to talk to anyone on your thread can attest to that you yourself have summarily stonewalled any posts analyzing and criticizing the theories that you have presented it is clear that all of you have pre-judged the entire issue, which, in case you haven't heard, is a practice demo libbers themselves claim they abhor -------------------------------------------------------- there are a number of replies to your post #25 to which this post replies to show a scintilla of good faith and start addressing them my first reply to #25 is a direct reflection of the fact that you refused to put the e-mail address of the Iraqi Mission at the U.N. in your thread header given the fact that they represent the guilty party, Saddam, it is beyond bizarre that you would not even begin to address the issue from the point of view of Saddam's lack of good faith response as being the main issue in preventing war you claim that you have answered the issue, the fact is you did not, another LIE from PartyTime

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 3/1/2003 9:09:10 AM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   United Arab Emirates Calls on Saddam to Step Down By Sarah El Deeb Associated Press Writer Published: Mar 1, 2003 SHARM EL-SHEIK, Egypt (AP) - The United Arab Emirates on Saturday called for Saddam Hussein to step down, the first Arab country to do so publicly. Sheik Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, president of the Persian Gulf nation, submitted a proposal at an Arab League summit urging Saddam and the rest of his leadership to give up power in exchange for immunity from prosecution. He didn't specify what crimes Saddam might be guilty of, but Iraqi dissidents have accused the Iraqi president of crimes against humanity for bloody crackdowns on minorities in Iraq. The call defied long-standing resistance among Arab leaders to meddling in each others' domestic affairs. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Friday that the only way for Iraq to avoid war is "disarmament and regime change." Sheik Zayed's letter, circulated among journalists at the summit and formally submitted for debate by the leaders, did not refer explicitly to Saddam but said the entire "Iraqi leadership should step down and leave Iraq with all the appropriate advantages within two weeks of adopting this Arab initiative." It said the Arab League and the United Nations should then govern until Iraq could return to "its normal situation according to the will of the brotherly Iraqi people." Sheik Zayed's proposal likely reflected a minority opinion shared mainly by Gulf countries that have long taken the hardest line against Saddam. The 22-member league was expected to take a more moderate approach when Saturday's summit ends with a pan-Arab declaration on how the Iraq crisis should be addressed. On Thursday, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell urged Arab leaders to call on Saddam to "step down and get out of the way and let some responsible leadership take over in Baghdad." But Egypt, considered the state in the best position to forge a pan-Arab consensus, said the Arab League could not issue such a call. "We are not in the business of changing the regime of one country or another," Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher said Friday. "We can only ask all parties to abide by international resolutions in order to avoid war." Privately, however, Arab diplomats said the idea of getting Saddam to step down has been under informal discussion. In a commentary Saturday in the Saudi newspaper Al-Jazirah, Ali Qorni, a professor of communications at Saudi Arabia's King Saud University, said some Arabs may fear they will be labeled American stooges if they speak out against Saddam. But he said they should acknowledge that to further political, economic and social stability, "it is in our strategic interests to remove the regime of Saddam Hussein with no sorrow or apologies .... If this is also in the interest of the United States or the West, then this will not hurt us at all." Diplomats had said the summit may send a high-level delegation to Baghdad carrying a message to Saddam with vague suggestions he quit. They also raised the possibility of sending an Arab delegation to press Iraq to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors trying to determine whether Iraq is hiding weapons of mass destruction. After two days of debate that preceded the summit, the foreign ministers could not decide whether an Arab delegation would go just to Baghdad or also to the United States, the United Nations and the European Union to stress the need to resolve the crisis peacefully. The leaders will have to choose between two proposals addressing what role Arabs might play in any war, diplomats said on condition of anonymity. One calls on Arabs not to take part in any attack; a second bars Arabs from allowing America to use their territory as a staging ground. A Kuwaiti envoy, Sheik Ahmed Fahd Al-Ahmed, told reporters the latter wording was "not realistic" but that Kuwait supported the call on Arabs not to participate in military action. Tens of thousands of U.S. troops are training in Kuwait ahead of a possible war with Iraq, which invaded Kuwait in 1990 and occupied it until a U.S.-led coalition forced Saddam to retreat in the 1991 Gulf War. Other Gulf countries have been sending troops and arms to help defend Kuwait should Iraq strike Kuwait in reaction to a U.S. attack. Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal told CNN that a U.S. military occupation of any post-Saddam Iraq would bring "chaos" to the region. The Arab world has been deeply divided by the U.S.-Iraq confrontation. Some countries, like Kuwait, argue war is inevitable and say the focus should be on planning for the aftermath. A second camp, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia, argues war can be avoided if Iraq cooperates fully with U.N. weapons inspectors. The proposal to condemn any war not authorized by the United Nations is a step short of the unequivocal anti-war declaration a third camp, led by Syria, is pressing the summit to make. AP-ES-03-01-03 0711EST ap.tbo.com

To: PartyTime who wrote (25) 3/1/2003 9:53:02 AM From: Vitas   Respond to of 808   U.N.'s Blix: Iraq Must Still Do More By EDITH M. LEDERER Associated Press Writer Al-Douri disputes a report by chief weapons inspector Hans Blix that Iraqi cooperation with inspectors has been limited. (Audio) UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The United Nations' chief inspector says Iraq must provide more documents, physical evidence and testimony about its weapons programs, despite plans to begin destroying banned missiles on Saturday. Hans Blix welcomed Iraq's agreement to destroy all its Al Samoud 2 missiles for violating a U.N. range limit of 93 miles, saying their elimination would be "a very significant piece of real disarmament." But in a 13-page report delivered to the U.N. Security Council on Friday, he made clear that the Al Samoud missiles were only one of many issues that Iraq still needs to address. He was highly critical of Iraq's overall disarmament efforts in the last three months, calling them "very limited so far." He also chastised the Iraqi government for failing to use its Dec. 7 weapons declaration and other contacts with U.N. inspectors to resolve a host of outstanding issues about its chemical, biological and long-range missile programs. While Blix told reporters Friday that any progress in the destruction of the Al Samouds would be reflected in his next report to the council, expected on March 7, his current report gave many examples showing that Iraq is not fully cooperating with U.N. inspectors on substantive issues. Graphic U.N. Security Council AP VIDEO Fleischer calls Saddam's claims "propaganda" and "lies" Windows Real AP VIDEO Iraqi Citizens prepare for possible war Windows | Real AP VIDEO Rumsfeld: Iraq war has many variables Windows | Real Interactives Edging Toward Conflict Weapons Inspectors: Back to Iraq Powell's Case to the U.N. Urban Combat Strategies Latest News Key Developments in the Iraq Crisis Saddam Called to Step Down at Arab Summit Pope Sending Envoy to Meet Bush on Iraq Powell: U.S. Giving Inspectors More Time Iraq Says It's Destroyed Four Missiles Iraq's cooperation is expected to be a key factor as the 15 nations on the deeply divided Security Council decide whether to back a quick war to disarm Saddam Hussein or beef up U.N. inspections. The United States, Britain and Spain have co-sponsored a resolution paving the way for military action, while France, Russia and Germany are pressing a rival proposal to let inspectors continue their work at least into July. Blix gave fresh ammunition to supporters and opponents of a quick war. He said he didn't understand why Iraq waited until mid-January to take steps that could lead to the discovery of banned items or evidence about long-standing disarmament issues. "If they had been taken earlier, they might have borne fruit by now," he said. "The results in terms of disarmament have been very limited so far." That assessment was certain to be welcomed by the Bush administration, along with Blix's statement that no Iraqi scientist has been interviewed privately "in circumstances that give satisfactory credibility." The United States has demanded such interviews - as well as interviews with Iraqi scientists outside the country, which Blix said he is currently exploring. The French-led anti-war camp, which believes inspections are working, is certain to welcome Blix's comments that Iraq has been helpful in arranging prompt access to sites and launching inspections. In an apparent reference to the French-Russian-German proposal, he said his inspection operation "could certainly further expand and strengthen its activity." Blix also said he was finishing a list of key unresolved disarmament issues, which if adopted by the Security Council would continue inspections for at least four months. Iraq's U.N. Ambassador Mohammed Al-Douri expressed concern that Blix's report could be used by the United States and Britain to launch an attack. "The Americans and the British try to use the U.N. as justification, as a cover for their war," he said. "We are doing (our) to avert this war through the United Nations, but at the same time we are preparing ourselves for such eventuality." Blix told reporters Friday that "the Iraqis are at the present time very active." "Today, they've been digging quite a lot in the ground," he said. "They've dug up bombs and fragments of bombs, bottom plates of bombs which are being counted... It's a little too early to say what the result is but there is a great deal of activity." Syria, the only Arab nation on the Security Council, distributed five pages of "talking points" Friday to give details of what Iraq has been doing to try to answer the inspectors' outstanding disarmament issues. It cites a Feb. 22 letter from Saddam's scientific adviser, Lt. Gen. Amer al-Saadi, informing Blix of the start of excavation in the area where 157 R-400 bombs filled with biological agents were destroyed by the government in 1991. In a follow-up letter, Iraq reported that 141 of the 157 bombs had been discovered, one filled with biological agents. It said seven additional filled bombs were found on Feb. 25 and would be reported to Blix. According to the Syrians, Iraq sent another letter to Blix on Feb. 22 including a report "answering questions regarding attempts to dry anthrax." A question remains whether the Iraqis were able to convert wet anthrax into dry spores more usable in weapons. Wet anthrax would most likely have lost its viability long ago. In letters this week, Baghdad enclosed reports on the areas where anthrax and VX nerve agent were destroyed and asked for a joint investigation to determine the amount that was eliminated. Other letters sent to Blix this week explained that 3,000 122 mm chemical warheads that are unaccounted for were smelted, that 550 bombs filled with mustard gas were destroyed by previous inspectors, and that a document alleging that Iraq contracted to import raw uranium from Niger after 1998 was forged, the Syrians said. customwire.ap.org

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