To: c.hinton who wrote (28913 ) 3/2/2003 9:51:12 AM From: jim black Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 36161 Perhaps OT Sunday ramblings: The (perhaps tiresome to you) refrain comes ever to mind. Yep! Let's stand! on our own to feet. We are the modern Rome. I fear we may not last as long because as a people in these the most challenging of times since we don't like to hear it or like to remember it, most of us, "Oderint dum metuant?" What matter they hate me as long as they fear (me)... Were I an Isreali having been attacked by Syria in 1948 I would have no qualms about smashing the bloody hell again out of the Syrians six years later. I have a long memory and happen not to feel guilty about it. But hey, that difference once again makes for dialogue and a market. FWIW I confess I was raised Episcopalian though from time to time in PM's I have been asked rather bluntly and impolitely if I am a Jew so I offer that my personal opinions, fare game on a day the market is closed, totally without shame or guilt. We have the power at this point in time in my view to reshape the world to our liking had we but the will. I fear we do not. It is indeed a praiseworthy goal to become oil independent but we passed on that initiative way back first in the Arab oil embargo of '74-75. The difference between myself and many good folks on this thread are simply that I see nothing wrong with exercising any degree of power to preserve the position we have. Darwin talked a lot about it. And FWIW I personally admit a bit of discomfort when referring to the ?religious orientations of the Founding Fathers in any serious dailogue. Two of the most prominent and influential of them, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson himself, were deists. And as far as working postulates for arguing a point of view I have a tendency that way being somewhat of an amateur mathematician (amateur=one who loves it and has two degrees in it) to be very interested in postulates. Consideration of defending our way of life and honoring our first 10 amendments, come to be known as the Bill of Rights, brings me to a prejudice come of a few years on this planet that postulates work in principle and practice only when EVEYONE agrees to abide by the same rules. Islam does not preach freedom of religion. It is ALWAYS quoted by their apologists in the media and by Bush himself otherwise but when one reads the whole damn book (yawn) one finds that both views, allowance of freedom of such and not are both espoused, we come back once again in a cirlce. Contradictions and fatally flawed traps lurk as well in Christianity in whose name much wickedness has been done. I like to refer to the Book of Leviticus often quoted by the likes of fundamentalist Christians. "This is right" and that is okay, but "this here is sinful"...touching football, shaving one's beard and homosexuality for example are all wrong BUT slavery is the accepted norm...it is what I like to refer to as prejudice cafereria style. Scriptures alone as one's source of reference without a core of common sense are potentially a sorce fo extinction. Freedom of religion is worthy of preserving as long as it does not byits very nature undeermine teh fabric of a free society otherwise. I think it is a joke. The truth is in my view that at it's core our clash of civilizations is that of one of a 21st century worldview with a 7th century one, justified by reliance on some "scripture", an excuse used by those who can't look throught their own words and read what has been recorded form Herodotus and all historians since. Saudi Arabia, our "friend" is far more dangerous and has far more oil that we NEED than Iraq, but both need to be neutralized in my view for our survival. N. Korea is a dangerous footnote and I am confounded by China's failure to dela with them just as I am confounded by their failure to deal Xingiang, their own thron of Islam. People who longingly espouse alternate energy sources simply have not read the article in "Science" recently written by a panel of experts that states we are technologically a long way from such alternant sources. My tolerance for critics of the US at this juncture is quite limited by the facts that the french (capitals not left off without notice) would be far more tolerable were their sales/dealings with Iraq not as strong as they are. BTW they still owe us from debts incurred in two world wars in which we saved their asses. My tolerance of the other European countries would be extended were they not already scared spitless of the muslims in their midst, mosque attendance on Fridays already far in excess of attendance on Sunday to the Church of England on the Emerald Isles. The Canadian Immigration Minister admits sadly that any member of Parliament who advocated restricting influx form isalmic countries would immediately be voted out of office (60 Minutes a few months back.) So it goes, the dialogue, the dialogue, the hand wringing, the hand wringling,...until the next one that Slider I think points to accurately...maybe 300,000. To borrow his phrase, tic toc...and the emperor fiddles while the fire begins to smolder. So let's go enjoy our Sunday as best we may. Sarah Conner of T1,T2 fame said it right in response to the Mexican gentleman filing her jeep up with gas who said, "There is a storm coming." "I know," she repiled. But then most people don't watch the sky.