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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (78854)	3/1/2003 9:33:21 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Michael, I worry about the other side as much as about the side you type about. And that's if Bush goes ahead in the present mode (there are a good many different modes still available), a great deal of the glue which holds international institutions comes apart. We might well head down a very, very dark path then. The lack of public support is not simply a small thing to be without; it's close to the entire ballgame. If, for instance, Friedman is correct, and almost everywhere he goes folk are not eager for this war; and we enter a journey of costs which we haven't been told about; of an occupation that's not been publicly discussed; of a plan for democracy that's not been formulated; and a global public opinion that's opposed. Ouch. It's going to be a very, very tough period for all of us. Go or not go. I read some of Jonathan Schell's latest essay in Harper's over the weekend. It's a portion of a book that will be published sometime this spring. He compares today to 1914 with the loss of international institutions and the descent into collective misery. I'm not that apocalyptic by a long shot, but I do have those thoughts now, on occasion.

To: michael97123 who wrote (78854)	3/1/2003 10:33:21 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi michael97123; Re: "Backing down now may be the beginning of the end for the free, democratic, pluralistic world." (1) If the democratic world truly is supposed to be pluralistic, then why all the vicious complaints about France, Germany and Russia, all of them democratic countries, expressing their opinions contrary to the Bush administration? The truth is that democracy and pluralism is not what Bush wants. The total number of people who voted for Bush was what, around 25 million? And for that he feels he should run a world with many thousands of millions of people? (2) Pulling 200,000 troops back from Kuwait, in the face of Iraq's continuing disarmament is hardly a disastrous loss of face. We're getting what we want (disarmament). Maybe not as fast as Bush would like, but there is no doubt that we are making progress. Compare this to our pulling 10x that many troops out of Vietnam without getting a damn thing for it. And that didn't exactly destroy the free world. -- Carl

To: michael97123 who wrote (78854)	3/2/2003 11:08:38 AM
From: Rascal	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Michael, I don't think things are as desperate as it looks. This morning on McLaughlin the talking heads said that they were about 95% sure we would go to war. Good news. THis bearish sentiment works just like it does in the Market! We are on the way to peace! In all seriousness this can turn around very quickly. Right now just about everybody thinks we are going to war but nobody (it seems) really wants to go. Everybody thinks the big problem is bringing home the troops. If we don't use them we look soft. All it takes is a Bush speech declaring victory. Suggested highlights: 1. Saddam has disarmed. We pushed him to do each thing we required. We are now sure that Nuclear weapons are not an immediate threat. Our military will insure that a more "invasive" inspection process do the mop up. 2.We have just demonstrated that our Military might is the greatest in History and its mere presence is threat enough to achieve our goals. 3.We have just captured ALQ2, the most important menace to the world through the use of our military might and superior intelligence agencies. THis two prong threat to terrorists has just been demonstrated and is a lesson to evil-doers world wide. 4. America has just proven that it is willing to risk the lives of our soldiers, the coin of the realm (economy) and do whatever it takes to secure peace and Democracy in the world. 5 We will continue to build coalitions and use our might to accomplish the promise of our time by insuring Peace, Democracy and help to all like minded nations. (Insert some kind of plan for Iraq here). 6. Above all we have demonstrated how Democracy works in our world. (Talk about France, Germany, Turkey yada, yada.) You can now see a worldwide, developing democratic network led by the United States which will support freedom loving people as tehy strive..... Send a memo to Rove. IT's what I would tell the President. It will truly ensure Bush's legacy. Now if the real goal is manufacturing and selling more armaments after we dump all these bombs this won't work. If it is really about oil, this won't work. If it's about revenge against Saddam because of his father's failure, this wont work. Rascal@ lookingforgiants.com