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Politics : Let's Start The War And Get It Over With -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/1/2003 11:25:46 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander  Respond to of 808
 
Yes, neither Discovery Channel nor C-SPAN is what they ones were, lot's of
unlinked links.

I'm missing "shark's week", "wings" and "month of the cannibal" as well as most of these

c-span.org

Not just the LBJ tapes, but they have been lost before.

Ilmarinen

However, a goodie on the "The THree Blind Mice"

booktv.org

as well as Spin This

booktv.org

and Susan Sontag/Sunday tomorrow



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 4:14:35 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
>>>What has Bush ever said that addresses the reasons why terrorism exists in the first place? Got any quotes?<<<

To:KLP who wrote (14382)
From: PartyTime Saturday, Mar 1, 2003 4:31 PM
View Replies (2) | Respond to of 14565

---------------------------------------------------------

see # 4

WIN WIN WIN WIN SITUATION

1. weapons of mass destruction eradicated, in accordance with the world's demand, as evidenced in UN 1441

2. oppressed people of Iraq freed from murdering dictator

if anyone is confused about that ask anyone who has lived under same, people of the eastern bloc countries being a fine example

it is not a humorous situation

nor is it a demo libb "theoretical" situation

3. the possibility of WORLD PEACE becomes viable, because in future orders of the UN or other institution, such as an effective WORLD COURT, future conflicts will be under pressure to be resolved peacefully or face ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES

4. terrorist activities will be reduced, both because of the threat of ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES and because they will see that whatever their grievances may be, real or imagined, that conflicts can and hopefully will be resolved peacefully

Message 18632862



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 6:20:02 AM
From: Vitas  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 808
 
A Danish pizzeria has banned French and Germans from dining there because of their country's stance on a war with Iraq.

Message 18627333

and PartyTime will not be seen in attendance at MLB games this summer

Message 18646495

p.s. debate this:

crowetoons.com



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 6:20:04 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
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To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 7:52:05 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Iraq Begins Destroying Missiles

By NEIL MacFARQUHAR


AGHDAD, Iraq, March 1 — Iraq began destroying its short-range Al Samoud 2 missiles today, crushing four of them with a bulldozer under the supervision of United Nations weapons inspectors, the latest in a series of clearly distasteful measures that Baghdad has swallowed in hopes of staving off war.

Demetrius Perricos, the deputy United Nations weapons inspector, said just 4 were crushed today of a stock of about 100. He said Iraq indicated that it could deliver only that many to the destruction site northwest of Baghdad right away.

[On Sunday morning, Reuters reported that six more missiles were destroyed by Iraq.]

He said demolition also started south of Baghdad on one of the two casting chambers used to meld solid rocket propellant and engines for other short-range missiles. "All the missiles that are presently deployed, all the missiles in a state where they are ready to be deployed and all the parts and components are also to be destroyed," Mr. Perricos said at a news conference here.

There was no immediate comment from the Iraqi government about the destruction.

In Sharm el Sheik, Egypt, today, at a summit meeting of Arab leaders, the United Arab Emirates became the first Arab country to call for President Saddam Hussein of Iraq to step down. The emirates said his resignation was the only way to avoid an American-led war and the devastation it could cause the Iraqi people.

Mr. Perricos said he was "very glad" that the destruction of Iraqi missiles had started, but he noted that it was just one of a host of outstanding questions about Iraqi cooperation with the weapons inspectors. "There is a big list of unresolved issues where we still have to have a lot of answers," he said, but he suggested that inspections could still be effective.

"We have not found the famous smoking gun," he said, but he suggested that the presence of the inspectors was preventing the development of weapons.

Although the timetable for the destruction of the missiles was left up to Iraq, Mr. Perricos said he hoped the pace would accelerate all week before one of the two chief weapons inspectors, Hans Blix, makes his next report to the United Nations Security Council. The United Nations had not set a deadline, Mr. Perricos said, but "the earlier they destroy, the better it is for them."

In addition to the destruction of the missiles, the Iraqis started to meet the demand that the inspectors be allowed to conduct private interviews with scientists involved in biological, chemical or missile technology. On Friday night, inspectors conducted two interviews, one with a biological scientist and the other with an engineer, and they conducted two more on Saturday.

The United States is pushing the Security Council to approve a new resolution supporting the use of force against Iraq. Those opposed to such action pointed to Iraq's promise to destroy the weapons as proof that inspections needed more time; their complete destruction would obviously bolster those arguments.

Mr. Perricos said that given the amount of material to be destroyed — including all the missiles, their warheads, 380 illegally imported engines, any fuel and all the design software — completing the job would not be feasible by the end of the week. But he said the Iraqis should be able to carry it out within two weeks.

He said the Iraqis were keenly aware of the weight riding on their decision to destroy the missiles. He said the decision to go ahead with new requests for interviews as well as the weapons destruction come now because the inspectors know that Iraq tends to be more flexible when it is facing deadline pressure of a new Blix report.

Mr. Blix demanded a week ago that Iraq start the destruction by today, saying that weapons experts had determined that the missiles exceeded the 93-mile limit imposed on Iraq for short-range missiles under the cease-fire that followed the Persian Gulf war in 1991. Experts also expressed concern that the rockets could serve as a precursor for a far more advanced system that could greatly exceed the limit.

Mr. Hussein and a host of senior Iraqi officials objected, saying first of all that the missiles, once fully loaded with their guidance systems, could not fly as far.

The destruction began a few hours after discussions with the Iraqis of technical aspects of the demolition. Mr. Perricos said that during a brief initial encounter a day earlier, the Iraqis had argued that they could keep the weapons, but that today they were all business.

He said the United Nations would have preferred that the weapons be exploded, a faster method, but the Iraqis elected to crush them.

The first efforts to crush a missile today failed because the bulldozer was too weak, but by late afternoon a stronger vehicle was found.

Iraq has been doling out concessions piecemeal, playing for time in hopes that the American threat to attack can be put off indefinitely either through international pressure or because of the onset of hot weather in April.

In accepting the order to destroy the missiles, Iraq was clearly hoping to provide support for countries like France, Germany and Russia, which have suggested that inspections need to be given more time to work. A refusal to destroy them would probably have generated overwhelming support in the Security Council for an attack on Iraq.

Iraq's chief weapons inspector, Gen. Hussam Amin, played down the significance of the missiles earlier this week, saying they were just one aspect of the country's defense abilities. Defense analysts also noted that they would probably be of little use in the cities where Iraq's military would probably be trying to take on the American forces.

"In this coming war, they will not be depending on missiles," suggested Wamidh Nadhmi, a professor at Baghdad University. "They will depend on urban warfare, where it is difficult for American technology to achieve supremacy."

The inspectors would provide no details concerning the interviews with the four scientists, but noted that they were the first interviews conducted since Feb. 7. Just three interviews were conducted around that day, all with scientists put forward by Iraq who worked for the inspection office.

Twenty eight requests by the United Nations for private interviews without Iraqi government "minders" or even tape recorders had been rejected by the Iraqis. Although the teams seeking to interview experts in biological, chemical or missile technology reject recordings, the nuclear inspectors have allowed them and carried out more than a dozen.

Iraq has responded to repeated demands for increased flexibility by suggesting a variety of technical discussions and by forming two commissions to look for both additional banned weapons and paperwork relating to destruction activity it said it carried out in 1991.

Mr. Perricos said he hoped to hear more about the work of the two commissions as early as Sunday. Discussions are to start Sunday with a team of biological weapons experts about ways to verify what Iraq says was its complete destruction of its stocks of VX gas and anthrax in 1991.

Weapons inspectors have also been going daily to the Aziziya firing range to observe the digging in search of R-400 aerial bombs and bomb fragments. Iraq says the bombs were filled with biological agents and destroyed.

Mr. Perricos said he could not confirm what the bombs unearthed so far contained, since samples are only to be taken Sunday, but there was liquid sloshing around inside them.

nytimes.com



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 8:15:47 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
woai-am.clearchannel.com



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 8:16:20 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
woai-am.clearchannel.com;



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 8:17:22 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Message 18646553



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/2/2003 11:34:54 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
ABC: Campbell Brown:

The Administration has made the decision to go ahead with the war

ETA: 2 weeks



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 12:40:47 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Poll: 6 of 10 Approve of Bush's Iraq Plan

By The Associated Press

Nearly six of every 10 people support President Bush's plan to disarm Iraq, by force if needed, according to a poll released Monday. But 24 percent have serious reservations about a war, while still supporting the president.

About a third, or 34 percent, support his policy without reservations, according to the ABC News-Washington Post poll. Another 37 percent say they oppose the policy.

Among reasons cited most often by those who oppose the Bush policy or have reservations: the need for more international support or the support of the United Nations; the potential loss of life; concern that the United States is moving too fast; or concern that there is an insufficient threat to justify war.

The uneasy support for military action by a fourth of the population could help explain why public opinion fluctuates so easily, depending on the way the question is asked.

The ABC-Post poll of 1,022 adults was taken Feb. 26-March 2 and has an error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

customwire.ap.org



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 1:17:51 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Message 18653267



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 1:38:04 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Arabs Discuss Call for Saddam to Resign

By ANWAR FARUQI
Associated Press Writer





DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) -- Some Persian Gulf countries have broken ranks with other Arabs and publicly said Saddam Hussein should go into exile. Others question the ethics of calling for a new regime, but Arab diplomats say privately the idea of getting the Iraqi leader to step down is worth discussing.

In a letter to a weekend Arab summit in Egypt, the Emirates' widely respected president, Sheik Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, became the first Arab leader to say publicly what until now had only been whispered in closed-door government meetings and debated in coffeehouses around the Arab world: Saddam should step down and go into exile to spare his people and the region.

Following a cool reception in Egypt - Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa said the issue wasn't replacing Saddam, but ensuring through U.N. inspections that Iraq is disarmed - the Emirates raised it again at a meeting of the Gulf Cooperation Council in Doha, Qatar.

Council members Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and the Emirates said Monday they could not endorse the proposal without pan-Arab backing. It was clear, though, that the Gulf states liked the idea. The king of Bahrain said he backs the call for Saddam to go, according to the Emirates state news agency. Kuwait's Cabinet also backed the measure, the official Kuwaiti news agency said.

"It is a very important initiative, but we have to discuss it further. ... This has to be discussed among all the Arab states to see how this can be implemented," Sheik Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabor Al Thani, the Qatari foreign minister, told reporters Monday.

AP VIDEO

Iraq begins missile destruction

Windows | Real



AP VIDEO

NATO deploys Patriot missiles in Turkey

Windows | Real



AP VIDEO

Rumsfeld: Iraq war has many variables

Windows | Real



Interactives
Edging Toward Conflict
Weapons Inspectors: Back to Iraq

Powell's Case to the U.N.

Urban Combat Strategies




Latest News
Poll: 6 of 10 Approve of Bush's Iraq Plan
Iraq Tries to Prove It Is Disarming

Pope Sending Envoy to Meet With Bush

Bush's Advisers Greet Catholic Leaders

Iranian Brigades Deploy in Kurdish Iraq






Also Monday, Iraq figured high on the agenda in a joint meeting of the Gulf Cooperation Council and the European Union in Doha. For now, the EU is staying out of the debate over whether Saddam should leave, an EU diplomat said. Nonetheless, a joint EU-Gulf statement took note of the Emirates initiative, a step short of endorsement but diplomatically significant.

Gulf states have traditionally been conservative team players in the Arab world, rarely making waves on larger international issues.

But Iraq's Gulf neighbors have decided they must either do something themselves or be overwhelmed by events. The call for Saddam to step down is unlikely to result in his peaceful exit, but it could mean those countries will be taken more seriously in discussions about Iraq's future likely to be directed by the United States.

One group of prominent Iraqi dissidents said a post-Saddam Iraq should be ruled by the United Nations, not the U.S. military, while Iraqis prepare to govern themselves democratically. The Emirates proposal called for the United Nations and the Arab League to handle the transition.

"The role of the United Nations and the Arab League would be very comforting for the Iraqi people, who would prefer an international and Arab involvement than an outright military occupation," said Adnan Pachachi, a leading Iraqi dissident who was foreign minister in the government toppled by Saddam's Baath Party in a 1968 coup. Pachachi lives in the Emirates and has acted as an adviser to Sheik Zayed.

Gulf states hesitant about full endorsement of the initiative are worried about the response from other Arab countries opposed to setting a precedent by calling for the removal of a fellow Arab leader.

Arab diplomats on the sidelines of the summit in Egypt privately said the idea of getting Saddam to step down has been under discussion, but few thought it was time for a formal offer.

An Arab diplomat said on condition of anonymity that the Emirates proposal was "one way to avert a devastating war in the region," but that it would be useless to make an offer Saddam was sure to reject.

The U.A.E. delegate said Gulf countries were still pushing the proposal behind the scenes.

"We must wait and see if it receives the blessing of other Arab countries," a Saudi delegate to the Gulf meeting said on condition of anonymity.

U.A.E. information minister, Sheik Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan, who floated the idea at the Arab League summit on behalf of his father, told The Associated Press the idea was "aimed at saving the Iraqi leadership, protecting the Iraqi people and the region from a devastating war. It should not be seen as an insult to anyone."

customwire.ap.org



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 6:21:46 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
PARTYTIME - MISSING ANY ANTHRAX?

"Workers have unearthed buried bombs they say are loaded with anthrax, aflatoxin and botulin toxin, and inspectors are analyzing the contents. Iraq is readying a letter to the United Nations (news - web sites) that proposes verifying it has gotten rid of anthrax and deadly VX nerve agent."

story.news.yahoo.com



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 6:40:05 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
PartyTime, is unwilling to discuss the issue of achieving real peace:

Message 18648514



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 6:40:14 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Karen Lawrence, is unwilling to discuss the issue of achieving real peace:

Message 18648610



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 6:40:16 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
X the Unknown, is unwilling to discuss the issue of achieving real peace:

Message 18648615



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 6:40:19 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Patricia C. Trinchero, is unwilling to discuss the issue of achieving real peace:

Message 18648616



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 7:43:15 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Message 18647761



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 7:52:03 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
Slander!
Antiwar arguments are unfair to the president.

By Representative J. D. Hayworth

Of all the arguments the so-called "antiwar" groups trot out, the two most slanderous are that we should not confront Saddam Hussein because Iraqi civilians, especially children, will die and that the coming war with Iraq will be fought to control its oil.

Both these have in common an assumption of depravity on the part of the president — the first that he is callous to the suffering of civilians and the second that he is out to enrich his friends in the oil industry. If anyone is depraved on both these counts, however, it is Saddam Hussein and those who oppose his ouster.

Tom Andrews, head of the group Win Without War, is a case in point. He recently argued against military action to disarm Saddam, saying, "I believe we will be responsible for the death of Iraqi children if we go in with a preemptive strike when it's not necessary."

The fact is: innocent Iraqi children and other civilians are right now dying every day at the hands of Saddam Hussein, who uses murder, torture, and rape as instruments of internal security.

Since the end of the Gulf War, it is estimated that 200,000 to 225,000 Iraqis (135,000-150,000 of them children) have died as a result of the internal uprising to overthrow Saddam after the Gulf War and Saddam's manipulation of U.N.-imposed economic sanctions.

Furthermore, over the last 20 years, it is estimated that more than 200,000 people have permanently disappeared into Iraq's prisons, while hundreds of thousands of others have been left physically and mentally broken, the victims of torture.

Note that most of this slaughter occurred while Iraq was under an intense inspection regime. So tightening the current inspections, as Andrews and other appeasers advocate, will do nothing to stop the reign of terror.

Since the Gulf War itself resulted in 1,000-5,000 civilian casualties — a fraction of the number Saddam has killed since then — a war to disarm and oust Saddam would surely save more innocent Iraqi lives, including children, than anything the antiwar crowd proposes.

Indeed, in Thursday's Daily Telegraph of London, dove-turned-hawk Julius Strauss quotes one Assos Hardi, the editor of a liberal newspaper in northern Iraq, saying, "How many people do you think will die if America attacks Saddam? It will probably be less than the number of people he kills in a single month."

An equally squalid accusation, favored especially by Democratic presidential candidates Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, is that President Bush wants war in order to control Iraq's oil as a reward to his friends in the oil industry, summed up in the bumper sticker slogan "No blood for oil."

When Kucinich made this claim on a recent Meet the Press, Richard Perle immediately called it what it is — a lie. If we wanted Iraq's oil, the easiest and cheapest way to get it would be to lift the economic sanctions and buy it.

In reality, the "No blood for oil" placards carried by anti-American street protestors should be directed at Saddam, who has spilled rivers of blood in his quest to control as much oil as he can.

Have Dean, Kucinich, and the rest forgotten that Saddam invaded Iran to gain access to the oil in its southwest province of Khuzestan? If successful, he would have controlled 20 percent of the world's oil consumption, and with it maybe more wealth and power than Saudi Arabia.

Saddam also invaded Kuwait partly to gain access to its oil. Adding Kuwait would have almost doubled the size of Iraq's oil reserves, again giving Saddam economic power to rival Saudi Arabia. Can anyone doubt that given the chance Saddam would invade Kuwait again?

If anyone is in it for the oil it is Saddam, who has spilled the blood of millions in the process. Why? Because more oil means more money and more money means more political and military power, with which Saddam can blackmail the region and the world and realize his megalomaniac dream of becoming the supreme leader of all Arabs.

It is pathetic that so many members of the antiwar movement have transferred to President Bush attitudes and actions for which Saddam is already guilty. It exposes the nature of the movement for what it is — partisan and intellectually dishonest.

— The Honorable J. D. Hayworth is a congressman from Arizona.

Message 18647847



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 8:08:26 AM
From: Vitas  Respond to of 808
 
“I hear people saying we don’t need this war. I say there’s some things worth fighting for. What about our freedom and this piece of ground? We didn’t get to keep ‘em by backing down.”

Darryl Worley, “Have You Forgotten?”

Message 18649675



To: PartyTime who wrote (396)3/4/2003 8:12:10 AM
From: Vitas  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 808
 
The Iraqi-Bin Laden Connection

freerepublic.com

News Reports on Iraqi-Bin Laden Connection

Iraq’s State Sponsorship of Osama bin-Laden and the al-Qaeda Terror Network

1999 Article: Iraq tempts bin Laden to attack West

Al-Qaeda Big Confirms Terror Ties to Iraq

White House Says it Has Evidence of Iraq-Al Qaeda Ties

The Iraq Connection: Was Saddam involved in Oklahoma City and the first WTC bombing?

World Trade Center Attack Complaint (Iraq named as plaintiff)

Complaint (PDF) Lawsuit claiming a 9/11 link between Iraq and al Qaeda. Sept. 3, 2002

Who did it? Foreign Report presents an alternative view (Iraq believed to be behind 9/11)

Iraq and al Qaeda: Who's campaigning to deny the links?

Iraqi Terrorists Detail Ties To Bin Laden

Bin Laden disciples terrorise Kurds

The real bin Laden (Iraq has supported al-Qaida for more than a decade)

Iraq giving chemical weapons to al-Qaida: US thinks Iraq plotting with terrorists

Iraq and al-Qaida part of same picture, says Straw

'Iraq knew of al-Qaeda attacks'

Bin Laden said to have nukes (Iraq has assisted al-Qaida with the purchase of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons)

Bin Laden uses Iraq to plot new attacks

Exposed: Saddam's Prohibited Missiles and Support of al-Qaeda Terrorism

Mohamed Atta Was Here...And met with Saddam Hussein's man in Prague.

Bin Laden met Iraqi agent

Lawsuit Alleges Saddam Trained 9/11 Hijackers

Mike Boettcher: Arrests may link al Qaeda, Iraq

Al Qaeda got gas in Iraq

Son of Saddam Praises bin Laden in Official Iraqi Newspaper

Iraq's Ambassador To Turkey Recalled To Baghdad [second link between Bin Laden and Iraq discovered]

U.S.: Rumsfeld Says Al-Qaeda Takes Refuge In Iraq

CIA Director: Al Qaeda May Be Turning to Iraq

Rumsfeld Says Iraq Has Helped al-Qaeda

Iraqi Funds, Training Fuel Islamic Terror Group: Two Iraqi Arabs held in a Kurdish prison tell of contacts among Ansar al-Islam, Al Qaeda, and aides to the Iraqi president.

Iraq-Al-Qaeda Bombshell: Mag Documents New Links

German investigators link bin Laden and Iraq with anthrax outbreak

'Proof' of Iraq/Bin Laden links

Was bin Laden working with Iraq?

Iraq suspected of sponsoring terrorist attacks

Bush hopeful new report will link Iraq to al-Qaeda

U.S. captures Iraqis in Afghanistan raid

A Saddam-Afghanistan Connection Reported

Saddam trained al Qaeda terrorists, British claim

Iraq, al-Qaida linked by administration: Fleischer hints at more coming on connection

Gephardt: 'Lots Of' Intelligence Ties Iraq to Al-Qaeda

UHOLY TRINITY IN CHEMICAL WEAPONS PACT - IRAQ, SUDAN & OSAMA BIN LADEN

Links Between 9-11 Terrorist Leader Mohammed Atta, Anthrax, bin Laden and Iraq Appear Likely

The Saddam Hussein / Osama Bin Laden Connection

Iraq trains Bin Laden’s Men in Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction

Al Qaeda find Iraqi escape

'America Should Act in Self Defense Against Iraq For 9/11, OKC, 1993 WTC Attacks

Rumsfeld: Iraq Sheltered Top Bin Laden Aides

Exposed: Saddam's Prohibited Missiles and Support of al-Qaeda Terrorism

State Department: Key al Qaida Man in Baghdad

Bin Laden is back, now as defender of Iraq

Al Qaeda’s Man in Iraq?

Al-Qaida cohorts still active in Iraq

Debate over Iraq-bin Laden links reignited

Did Saddam, Bin Laden Work Together to Get Weapons of Mass Destruction?

U.S. Has 'Solid Evidence' of Al Qaeda Operating in Iraq

Iraq-al-Qaida links go back decade: CIA reports show nearly 100 examples of cooperation, says reporter

Arafat-Saddam-Bin Laden Links Surface

Bin Laden-Saddam nuclear pact?

Bin Laden imitates Saddam

‘PHARAOH' CLUE LINKS SADDAM AND OSAMA

New Evidence Of Iraq-Al Qaeda Ties?

U.S. tracked top al Qaeda planner's visit to Baghdad

Rice: Iraq Providing Shelter, Chemical Weapons Help to Al Qaeda

Blair claims Iraq is linked to al-Qaida

Al-Qaeda terrorists seen in Iraq, says US

An Al Qaeda- Iraq link materializing?

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