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Politics : DON'T START THE WAR -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (14612)	3/2/2003 8:26:00 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 25898

Zonder... Do not twist my words or try semantical rhetoric to bludgeon your way into making me accept your point of view.. I'm relying on logical pragmatism and I think you're deliberately trying to avoid recognizing that in order to "win" some point between us. The only TRULY legitimate government is one that possesses a mechanism for being accountable to its citizens. The rest are nothing more than various manifestations, some benign and some vicious, of the law of the jungle, where the strong and powerful survive and rule. Where the strong do what they will, and the weak suffer what they must.. Where the only right to due process is that which is bestowed by the ruling party, and which can granted or taken away arbitrarily... But by any TRUE measure of civilized measure, they ARE NOT LEGITIMATE.. But obviously you seem quite content to recognize any old despot as being deserving of the same respect of an elected ruler... That any system of elected representatives is no better than some brutal, repressive dictatorship... IMO, you're merely being disingenous and arguing for the sake of arguing...unwilling to concede even such a basic point that democratic government is not only far more preferable than tyranny, but is inherently more legitimate because of the essence of who its accountable to.. Not all illegimate governments are malicious. Some, like Monaco's, seem to be quite benign, if not enlightened.. But that will only last so long as the rulership is willing to see the benefit from such a perspective. But the government's future solely lies in whoever is the heir to the throne. You'll never be part of the "power elite" in Monaco, unless you marry into it. You may have money, but can't buy you a royal bloodline in such a caste/class system. And some, like Pakistan, are a democracy in crisis, where political parties are hi-jacking the political process in order to destroy the democratic system.. Much as the Nazi party used the Weimar Republic to win legitimacy in order to dissolve that democracy, and replace it with a totalitarian regime. But goodness gracious, just because a government is less "legitimate" because it is not democratic is no reason we can't "do business" with it if they share our values in other respects... Just because your neighbors are democratic atheists/agnostics doesn't you shouldn't interact with them in order to eventually win them over, or to empower the people to eventually alter the system.. One must maintain engagement where hope exists for democratic values. But where the current regime is intransigent and unwilling to moderate, there's no reason to extend the same "courtesy" towards them. And it has been, and should remain, the case that the US seeks to promote democracy throughout the world were possible. It's not always successful, and sometimes it is depriortized in order to achieve other goals such as fighting against a worse totalitarian tyranny, but that is generally the long-term goal of the US. Only in a world of democracies can absolute power be diluted, and expansionist aggression countered... And only in such a world where governments are accountable to those who are being governed can other democracies be safe. And I'm really sorry that we don't seem to agree with this... And if that's "slandering your world view", maybe it's time to reassess your perspective about just how much you are willing to sacrifice to enjoy material bounty. After all, you're not a native of Monaco so that suggest that for some reason your native country has not provided you the same kind of opportunity... Am I incorrect? The argument for invading Iraq is pretty clear. 1.) Saddam supports terrorism, and allegedly sought to expand his contacts with Al-Qaeda to further his "false flag" operations through terrorist proxies, while maintain plausible deniability.. 2.) Saddam remains in violation of any number of UNSC resolutions which has required western nations to contain him by "all necessary means" of ineffective sanctions (which the US catches most of the international heat for) over the past 12 years. 3.) Existing UN resolutions (678) authorize the restoration of peace and international stability in the region "by all necessary means".. The region has NOT become more stable in the past 12 years, thus demonstrating that the policy of containment has failed to achieve desired and credible results. US forces cannot depart from the region for fear of Saddam menacing his neighbors again (as he did in 1994).] And since this authority to use "all necessary means has not be revoked by the UNSC, it remains in force, and any member state has been requested to restore peace and stability to the region. That's what the US is going to do.. It doesn't have to be about Al-Qaeda, or whether Saddam represents a legitimate government. It comes down to whether his continued presence remains an impediment to restoring peace and stability to the region. I say that he does. His sons are even more cruel than he is, and even more unpredictable. His presence has prevented any major course of moderation, or social change in the region... It has been an impediment to economic investment and development that would go far towards procluding millions of muslims from having to emigrate from there to find opportunity in the west. And if Saddam is a legitimate government, then the decision to invade Kuwait is a responsibility borne by all of the Iraqi people. Just as his intransigence and refusal to comply with UNSC resolutions voluntarily becomes the responsibility of these very same people. And I say that the demographic trends in the region are a powder keg waiting to explode if Western nations fail to act in creating economic prosperity in the region. And when that demographic powder keg explodes, the loss of life and devastation will be far more even you can imagine... And you will look back and ask yourself why they didn't defuse that bomb when they had the chance... Just like the world did when Hitler was finally destroyed.. Hawk@IapologizeforanytyposbutIhave9stichesinmythumb.com