To: DuckTapeSunroof who wrote (365753 ) 3/3/2003 8:44:04 PM From: Johannes Pilch Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670 Johannes, I hope you've bought real estate off-planet... because your are certifiably extra-terrestrial. Dang. This from a friggin' inferior earthling! Well... you got me. But I've actually bought real estate right here on earth. We are taking ovah the whole dang planet. Don't worry, though. While we gon' DEFINEY assimilate most fokes, we ain' gon' tetch yo dumb ass.If one can't determine what is 'natural' by observing behavior in the aggregate... than what objective yardstick do you use? Biological identity.Do you examine chicken entrails for portents of the future? Do you have a mojo stick you waive to make your decisions? It is as simple as the relationship that is responsible for making the chicken exist in the first dang place. All things flow from there. But science, real science, not all that crappy religion in which you believe, makes the thing even clearer.And, PS, I didn't bring 'religion' into this discussion, not even once. Honest. I don't know how you pulled that one out of left field.... You certainly are bringing religion into this discussion. You do it each time you claim actions are not behaviors, but that once they become "mainstream" or "staples" or "repeated" and other such slush-brained hogwash, THEN they are behaviors. That is nothing but a bunch of empty-headed religion. You just believe all this hyper-subjective crap "Jess Because." The fact is, when a natural thing does something - ANYTHING, that action is a behavior - and it either corresponds with the natural thing's biological identity, or it does not.You bring up the words 'biological identity'... but how do you decide what is and what isn't part of 'biological identity' if you are ruling observation out? Please. I never said anything about ruling out no dang observation. That is your goofy fantasy. I have all along maintained behaviors can be observed to either correspond with or be foreign to nature. I maintain that this observation comes not from observing the behavior as an entity because behavior does not exist in nature as such. It comes as a result of observing natural things, their biological existence and that which is responsible for causing that existence. When we see one natural thing literally entering existence from two other natural things, the fundamental relationship between the two latter natural things quite obviously and fundamentally defines the former natural thing.I really don't get it, if you are ruling objective observation out as a tool... it sounds like you are flying blind. I never ruled out no dang objective observation at all. You oughta stop all this friggin' puddin'-headed mess. I am talking precisely of objective observation. You do not talk of such observation when you go whinin' about dang actions mysteriously becoming behaviors and crap like that. You talk nothing but a bunch of goofy religion.