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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: paul_philp who wrote (80178)	3/7/2003 2:48:27 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<The Hawks read the world quite accurately when they advocated against going to the UN> So, the solution to failed Unilateralism, is more and earlier Unilateralism. When ShockAndAwe don't work, the proposed solution will be more and more and more ShockAndAwe. Just as in Vietnam. <The Hawks messed up with Turkey but seemed to have had a good handle on the rest of the world> With Germany, France, Turkey, and South Korea, we are seeing the shockingly quick dissolution of core alliances that held for 60 years. "Messed up" is a huge understatement. <you are paying too much attention to public posturing and not enough attention to actions> The Hawks ignored the anti-American polls overseas, and ignored the anti-American (to be precise, anti-Bush) statements of foreign leaders ("just posturing"). And then were surprised, when the foreign leaders listened to their own people, and the words guided action. The French, Russians, and Chinese are going to veto our UNSC resolution. The Turks are not allowing American soldiers in. Compare how many nations sent soldiers to fight beside America, in Iraq1, and Iraq2: that is a very tangible action. <you assume that one side is being straight-forward with their protestations while the other side is only posturing> No, I assume diplomats everywhere lie, and the usual practice among nations is short-sighted selfishness. I don't see anyone holding the HighMoralGround here.

To: paul_philp who wrote (80178)	3/7/2003 3:53:43 PM
From: Condor	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

As for Canada, they will be saluting the US flag the moment it is asked. Until then, we just want to be seen as not under the thumb. We would hate for the world to think of us as weak and foolish like Britain. I really dislike you speaking for all Canadians. You do not seem to be in tune with your countrymen. It is you who came to this thread sprawling on the bed with legs spread. Most Canadians are very stand offish about the new US we find ourselves living beside.