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Politics : DON'T START THE WAR -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: PartyTime who wrote (18241)	3/9/2003 6:37:17 PM
From: PartyTime	Respond to of 25898

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To: PartyTime who wrote (18241)	3/9/2003 6:44:11 PM
From: Karen Lawrence	Respond to of 25898

From Doc Bones over at FADG To:LindyBill who wrote (80414) From: Doc Bones Saturday, Mar 8, 2003 7:41 PM Respond to of 80782 Is It Good for the Jews Bill, I think you're getting too conspiratorial here. [The rest of Keller's editorial is given below.] I see a straightforward attempt to detoxify the "Israel's war" issue. It can't be written by Safire; it has to be done by someone not closely identified with the pro-Israel establishment. I think it fails, just because it conjures up a "conspiracy." Is it conspiracy to believe that Israel exerts enormous influence over U.S. MidEast policy? I think it's common knowledge and common sense. Who in the U.S. Congress is willing to stand up to Israel? Presidents speak out against settlements in the territories, and Congress rubber stamps the Israeli check every year. It's extremely cheap to get a home in the settlements - they're heavily subsidized. Who pays for that (and socialist benefits in Israel we could only dream of, a great boost to Likud followers)? - the U.S. taxpayer. This is what makes Saint George's flaming sword of goodness sputter a little. Presidents and official U.S. policy oppose them, but the money is always granted. As the Congressman caught in the "ABSCAM" sting famously said: "In this town money talks and bullshit walks." President's are not much less influenced by Israeli pressure, but heads of state usually feel an obligation to at least try to stand up against political pressure, and do what's right for the country. A recent example - Turkey's leader trying to get approval for stationing American troops there. It has become obvious recently that Saddam is not the single great threat to U.S security. It is also obvious that he is the great present threat to Israel. Israel has been quite secure for thirty years, and if Saddam gets atomic weapons it will become quite insecure. Maybe the most intellectually honest argument that could be made for getting Saddam now is that we are totally committed to Israel, and so we should get him. It's not an argument that will be made though, it is instead dismissed as a conspiracy theory. I don't think we are or should be that totally committed to Israel, at least until you guys make it the 51st state. <g> Israel is not the reason we're going after Saddam, but Israel's interests exert a powerful influence over U.S. policy. Do we have a moral right to go after Saddam? I think just his assassination attempt on George Bush the elder would give us that right, and he's guilty of a lot more than that. Whether it's the right policy is another question, and a possibly reasonable policy has been badly bungled. [Aside: Could we change the policy that forbids assassination of foreign rulers to exempt those foreign rulers who try to assassinate our rulers? - precedent Old Testament "An eye for an eye....."] W recently reiterated his desire for a two-state settlement of the Palestinian problem. He also said that when he was building support for the Afghanistan war, but if he were to truly strive for it, his flaming sword would burn cleaner. "Is it good for the Jews" is not just satire, it has an element of truth. It is not surprising that a people who have suffered the discrimination and abuse that the Jews have, in times ancient and modern, would band more tightly together against outsiders. Israel is single-mindedly focused on its own interests and security, and the United States could profit by that example. Doc@conspiracy.org ----- p.s. We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh. He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you. --Friedrich Nietzsche